USF: Bleed Infantry, Paper Armor, DOA weapon crews

Whats the point of playing USF currently. The whole faction is seriously lack on all fronts except for its "amazing base infantry unit" that doesn't scale and bleeds like no other.

Their armor hits the field late making its already paper thin armor impossible to keep alive let alone micro as most of their tanks lack the crush capability to crush dead friendly tanks.

Weapon crews are insta wiped as they only have 4 men and with the revived accuracy on them, they only tend to last a few seconds before they are wiped off the map.




This whole "USF" op thing, is bullshit. It needs to stop now and we need to rework USF for a more fair playing field, currently the faction has The Highest amount of micro required out of all factions as well as the worst pathfinding due to its lack of crush, making playing the faction a never ending roller coaster of frustration and units that tend to preform well only when the RNG gods are on your side.

Only a bad designed faction can get shut down in 5-6 mins and have useless infantry past the 10 min mark, not bad players, stop calling it a L2P issue and try this faction for yourself against simi decent players and watch you get steam rolled.


What is this faction supposed to not have bad between its poor armor, bleedy infantry, and dead weapon crews besides the P47? because I cant think of anything this faction has going for it.

heres comes all the pros and and axis fanboys comming to say learn to playyyyyyyyyyyy

You should only attempt to play USF in 1v1.

Whats the point of playing USF currently. The whole faction is seriously lack on all fronts except for its "amazing base infantry unit" that doesn't scale and bleeds like no other.
.

Let me address you point by point.

USF basic infantry (riflemen) vet scales them like all other basic infantry, and like all other basic infantry they are dependent on weapon upgrades to truly shine late game. 1919 rifles are extremely potent and BAR rifles are nothing to sneeze at either.

Their armor hits the field late making its already paper thin armor impossible to keep alive let alone micro as most of their tanks lack the crush capability to crush dead friendly tanks.

All mediums have "paper thing" armor with the exception of the Vet 2 PIV (or OKW PIV) and the Easy Eight. USF just has the lions share of medium tanks. With heavies being limited to one you might have noticed that all basic AT guns have extremely low bounce chances on even the non-paper thin armor tanks.

Ironically the faction hurt most by this is Ostheer; who's mediums hit the field dead last which means you need to tie vet 0 PIV's against a LOT of AT.

Weapon crews are insta wiped as they only have 4 men and with the revived accuracy on them, they only tend to last a few seconds before they are wiped off the map.

All USF and OKW crews should have 5 men IMO, and Iv never liked the received accuracy on MG teams but w/e at least when you recrew you don't get that anymore (which means para dropped weapons when recrewed are more durable)

This whole "USF" op thing, is bullshit.

Depends, USF blobs with barfinder/para spam is brutally OP against OKW who lacks any kind of late game suppression platform. But yeah in general USF is not OP.

currently the faction has The Highest amount of micro required out of all factions

Micro is not a catch all term. OKW relies on microing a lot of infantry units aggressively and baby sitting a small amount of tanks. Soviets rely on microing a coordination of artillery/support weapons for area denial while playing aggressively with armor. USF relies on extremely aggressive infantry play while remaining mobile with armor support. Ostheer relies almost entirely on support weapon micro while using tanks to support defensive emplacements or flank attacking enemy forces.

One upon a time USF required the most micro, but since all factions now are stuck having to use lots of mediums I wouldn't say that's the case.

What is this faction supposed to not have bad between its poor armor, bleedy infantry, and dead weapon crews besides the P47? because I cant think of anything this faction has going for it.

USF trades durability for extremely high offensive power. That's it's "gimmick". Relic decided to reduce OKW's gimmicks, now it seems like they will next start focusing on USF if their streams are any indication.

Let me address you point by point.

USF basic infantry (riflemen) vet scales them like all other basic infantry, and like all other basic infantry they are dependent on weapon upgrades to truly shine late game. 1919 rifles are extremely potent and BAR rifles are nothing to sneeze at either.



All mediums have "paper thing" armor with the exception of the Vet 2 PIV (or OKW PIV) and the Easy Eight. USF just has the lions share of medium tanks. With heavies being limited to one you might have noticed that all basic AT guns have extremely low bounce chances on even the non-paper thin armor tanks.

Ironically the faction hurt most by this is Ostheer; who's mediums hit the field dead last which means you need to tie vet 0 PIV's against a LOT of AT.



All USF and OKW crews should have 5 men IMO, and Iv never liked the received accuracy on MG teams but w/e at least when you recrew you don't get that anymore (which means para dropped weapons when recrewed are more durable)



Depends, USF blobs with barfinder/para spam is brutally OP against OKW who lacks any kind of late game suppression platform. But yeah in general USF is not OP.



Micro is not a catch all term. OKW relies on microing a lot of infantry units aggressively and baby sitting a small amount of tanks. Soviets rely on microing a coordination of artillery/support weapons for area denial while playing aggressively with armor. USF relies on extremely aggressive infantry play while remaining mobile with armor support. Ostheer relies almost entirely on support weapon micro while using tanks to support defensive emplacements or flank attacking enemy forces.

One upon a time USF required the most micro, but since all factions now are stuck having to use lots of mediums I wouldn't say that's the case.



USF trades durability for extremely high offensive power. That's it's "gimmick". Relic decided to reduce OKW's gimmicks, now it seems like they will next start focusing on USF if their streams are any indication.

So boring, cruzz please end this

USF basic infantry (riflemen) vet scales them like all other basic infantry, and like all other basic infantry they are dependent on weapon upgrades to truly shine late game. 1919 rifles are extremely potent and BAR rifles are nothing to sneeze at either.

Except the 1919 is doctrinal. The BAR is indeed good; not LMG42 good but not a waste of Muni; Bazooka may actually be more interesting with (effectively) reduced cost.


The Vet-scaling just plain wrong. I'd have to look it up but its not good enough to compete with Grenadiers of either flavor. Also the Conscript exists which immiedately makes the "all other" argument wrong.

All mediums have "paper thing" armor with the exception of the Vet 2 PIV (or OKW PIV) and the Easy Eight. USF just has the lions share of medium tanks. With heavies being limited to one you might have noticed that all basic AT guns have extremely low bounce chances on even the non-paper thin armor tanks.

Ironically the faction hurt most by this is Ostheer; who's mediums hit the field dead last which means you need to tie vet 0 PIV's against a LOT of AT.

It doesn't help that this is the only tank class they can use at the moment (Non-Alpha testers don't get excited)
This may be more a symptom of AT being hilariously easily available for frankly anyone to get a hold of; a lot of larger sized games I'll see Soviet players take SU85s for the focused-sight, and keep around a legion of SU76's. I'm not really sure what would fix that without rendering the SU76 a potato again; aside from making the other AT options more attractive, but that opens up a whole new bag of problems.

All USF and OKW crews should have 5 men IMO, and Iv never liked the received accuracy on MG teams but w/e at least when you recrew you don't get that anymore (which means para dropped weapons when recrewed are more durable)

YARP.

Depends, USF blobs with barfinder/para spam is brutally OP against OKW who lacks any kind of late game suppression platform. But yeah in general USF is not OP.

Having played against Paraspam; yeah really annoying.

Micro is not a catch all term. OKW relies on microing a lot of infantry units aggressively and baby sitting a small amount of tanks. Soviets rely on microing a coordination of artillery/support weapons for area denial while playing aggressively with armor. USF relies on extremely aggressive infantry play while remaining mobile with armor support. Ostheer relies almost entirely on support weapon micro while using tanks to support defensive emplacements or flank attacking enemy forces.

One upon a time USF required the most micro, but since all factions now are stuck having to use lots of mediums I wouldn't say that's the case.

I'll admit now I haven't played 1v1 in a very long time (and it was hard to find a game at the time), but reading the words "OKW" "Microing" and "infantry" in that order does not seem to happen. That is to not say its not punished hilariously fast by Scotts, SU76s, Pak-Howis and lucky Zis's (or good Shock-troop play). Annoyingly this blob comes back pretty fast if the med-truck is set up in a good spot, so you will basically attrition them down if they're not capable of renewing forces quickly (although again, ZSU-Quad makes it hilariously easy for soviets; still not sure why its 270MP). That was less a jab at OKW and more at people just attack-moving.

USF trades durability for extremely high offensive power. That's it's "gimmick". Relic decided to reduce OKW's gimmicks, now it seems like they will next start focusing on USF if their streams are any indication.

Probably true; early offensive power isn't actually all that great early game compared to dumping a Kubel at cut off and giving the other guy the finger while STURMPIONEERSGUNJAMGUNJAM move past suppressed units like a cop spraying protesters with mace. Faster access to the fun-stuff does help them out alot but its more highlighting what the actual unit problems are.

*edit: formatting

l2p is all you gonna see in this forum

USF is OP, case closed.

if the faction requires a high amount of micro to play, isnt that just a l2p issue

USF is OP, case closed.

Still dominate ostheer early game and OKW, I agree

USF has the best and fastest produced light tank in the game.Takes some micro but they can stun and shoot out engines.

Still dominate ostheer early game and OKW, I agree

If it would, don't you think it would not have worst win-loss ratio for 1v1?

USF is rock bottom in this patch for all 4 modes, lest for 1v1, but still bottom.

Except the 1919 is doctrinal. The BAR is indeed good; not LMG42 good but not a waste of Muni; Bazooka may actually be more interesting with (effectively) reduced cost.

Yeah Zooks obviously need a small muni cost reduction but Iv found them to be working quite well now that mediums are more common and there are far less heavies running around. Them being packaged with BARs was an enormous help.

BAR right now if fine IMO, you can give it to everyone and it works. LMG42 is fine because it's limited only to grens.

1919 needs to be limited to 1 per squad and "offensive stance" needs to be fired into the sun.

The Vet-scaling just plain wrong. I'd have to look it up but its not good enough to compete with Grenadiers of either flavor. Also the Conscript exists which immiedately makes the "all other" argument wrong.

Vet scaling between basic infantry units is very, very similar. To wit;

Grens:

Unlocks the 'Field First Aid' ability
+40% accuracy,
-20% cooldown, -25% recharge time for Panzerfaust, -23% received accuracy
Cons:
Unlocks the 'Trip Wire Flares' ability
+40% accuracy, +25% molotov range
-20% weapon cooldown, -23% received accuracy, -25% AT grenade recharge
Volks:

-10% received accuracy
+30% accuracy, -20% weapon cooldown
Passive Healing, -10% received accuracy
+40% sight range, +30% accuracy
-30% cooldown, -30% reload

Riflemen:

Unlocks the 'Anti-Tank Rifle Grenade' ability
-23% received accuracy, -20% weapon cooldown
+30% accuracy, -50% ability recharge time, +25% grenade range

As you can see the only real outlier here are Volks which don't get any vet 1 ability other than just being harder to hit. The reason why Volks vet bonus's are good is because the unit itself is literal trash outside of just toating a shrek around and capping points. If it didn't have vet that was good there would be no reason to even make them.

IMO the only change rifles need to vet is for the anti-tank grenade to be bundled in the USF grenade package and the vet 1 to give a small received accuracy bonus to make them slightly more durable. Also elite riflemen should just be removed and replace with an ability that makes rifleman vet up faster in general.

It doesn't help that this is the only tank class they can use at the moment (Non-Alpha testers don't get excited)

It's functionally what most factions now only use with heavies being pushed back and limited to one.

This may be more a symptom of AT being hilariously easily available for frankly anyone to get a hold of; a lot of larger sized games I'll see Soviet players take SU85s for the focused-sight, and keep around a legion of SU76's. I'm not really sure what would fix that without rendering the SU76 a potato again; aside from making the other AT options more attractive, but that opens up a whole new bag of problems.

I think thats more a problem with the SU-76 being to cheap/coming to quickly. Yes USF's tanks hit the field with there is AT out but it's not like OKW or Ost tank's don't either. The only faction that can field tanks retardly fast is Soviets at the moment.

I'll admit now I haven't played 1v1 in a very long time (and it was hard to find a game at the time), but reading the words "OKW" "Microing" and "infantry" in that order does not seem to happen. That is to not say its not punished hilariously fast by Scotts, SU76s, Pak-Howis and lucky Zis's (or good Shock-troop play). Annoyingly this blob comes back pretty fast if the med-truck is set up in a good spot, so you will basically attrition them down if they're not capable of renewing forces quickly (although again, ZSU-Quad makes it hilariously easy for soviets; still not sure why its 270MP). That was less a jab at OKW and more at people just attack-moving.

Blobbing as OKW is basically a death sentence these days with how good artillery is (and M10 crushing for that matter....) It's much better to simply spread units out while still keeping them supporting each other. You will never have enough fuel to match the enemy with tanks as OKW so you need to overwhelm them with infantry (which translates to just map controlling the fuck out of the enemy and having 2-3 flanking forces ready at all times.)

Probably true; early offensive power isn't actually all that great early game compared to dumping a Kubel at cut off and giving the other guy the finger while STURMPIONEERSGUNJAMGUNJAM move past suppressed units like a cop spraying protesters with mace. Faster access to the fun-stuff does help them out alot but its more highlighting what the actual unit problems are.

Kubels really aren't hard to counter, yeah OKW has an aggressive early game but that's because the entire theme of the faction is based around a rush to get as much territory as possible then lock it down with trucks. Playing defensive as OKW will lose you the game, but that's twice as true for USF. Thing is; OKW has gotten a lot of the alpha changes its needed to be less gimmicky while USF has not.

If it would, don't you think it would not have worst win-loss ratio for 1v1?

USF is rock bottom in this patch for all 4 modes, lest for 1v1, but still bottom.

Joking

I'm a mid tier player and they're not too awful tbh. Most of my games have been making it to the late (sometimes late-late) game and that's where they really struggle.

The early game "win in 10 minutes" gimmick is gone so they need more options late game. Para's are fine, double bar Rifles are fine, but the AT gun needs a serious buff. Spending 60 muni's just to give it a chance at penning heavier tanks is way too much of a drain. If this means taking away the awesome vet1 ability then that's okay.

Overall, you can counter most things Axis throws at you. But it requires strict build orders and excellent unit preservation. Team weapons are great except for the AT gun in most cases but it's a very unforgiving faction at the moment.

After this patch USF is not playable. Its the worst faction to play. I did not even try.

After this patch USF is not playable. Its the worst faction to play. I did not even try.

That's the spirit.

Can you belive. I guessed right what means DOA.
Like after 5-10 sec of thinking I decided that this means "dead on arrival". Though never heard those words before

Well, everyone can agree that pathing is bad.
Relic should feel bad about that.
They should work on base mechanics that reduce frustration and add more knobs to balance with. LIKE ACTUALLY GOOD PATHING AND PROBABLY SIDE ARMOR PLS

bar and bazooka need to be 45 mu. One bar is clearly inferior to one lmg42 and therefore should be cheaper.

You basically need two bar to keep up with the lmg42 gren and 120 mu for two bar is just too much.

the pack howitzer is still a bit iffy. It's got good shell damage and aoe but crippled by short range and long recharge on barrage.