USF: Bleed Infantry, Paper Armor, DOA weapon crews

bar and bazooka need to be 45 mu. One bar is clearly inferior to one lmg42 and therefore should be cheaper.

You basically need two bar to keep up with the lmg42 gren and 120 mu for two bar is just too much.

They're not the same weapon, BAR are close-mid range and LMG are mid-long range.

They're not the same weapon, BAR are close-mid range and LMG are mid-long range.

admittedly this make direct comparison rather difficult, but when's the last time people run away from fear at a bar blob? aside from pathfinder blob.

I think BAR is fine for 60, zook is probably a bit overpriced.

I would prefer the bazooka got some secondary utility rather than made cheaper, like squads with zooks could spend muni to fire a special WP shot or a HE round for clearing buildings? But then it might be way too good, idk. Would just be nice if it was a more generalist weapon rather than being "like a panzerschreck, but worse in every way!"

I think BAR is fine for 60, zook is probably a bit overpriced.

I would prefer the bazooka got some secondary utility rather than made cheaper, like squads with zooks could spend muni to fire a special WP shot or a HE round for clearing buildings? But then it might be way too good, idk. Would just be nice if it was a more generalist weapon rather than being "like a panzerschreck, but worse in every way!"

It's advantage over the Panzershrek is it has a much higher ROF making it great against light vehicles. To bad Axis light vehicles don't exist

It's advantage over the Panzershrek is it has a much higher ROF making it great against light vehicles.

not really, the higher ROF only serve to offset the lower damage. even on coh-stats it list the bazooka as having inferior dps.

then there's the inferior penetration.

It's advantage over the Panzershrek is it has a much higher ROF making it great against light vehicles. To bad Axis light vehicles don't exist

Still not useful, it has lower damage per second owing to it doing 80 damage instead of 120.

Oh I'm not saying Zooks are great or as good as shreks lol I'm just saying what their """advantage""" is supposed to be.

USF can get more mileage out zooks now that mediums are more common but yeah adjusting the pen up a bit or just reducing the cost would be noice

Just make zooks do 100 damage as opposed to the 80 they do now. And buff it's accuracy slightly.

IMO 50 muni is fair for BAR and zook in present state, if either are buffed at all (like above) stay 60 of course.

They could do 100 damage, but 80 is painfully low for an AT weapon like that. It currently takes 8 shots to kill a Medium Tank with a Bazooka, and 6 with a Panzerschreck. 100 Damage would at least bring the number down to 7.

As long as I'm winning just fine with USF this patch, the faction seems fine to me. It's true that I didn't play 1v1 with it this patch yet, but for 2v2 seems fine. On the contrary, while playing Axis, the hardest beating that me and my mate took was from dual USF (and we gotten beat just twice this patch).

While playing USF I usualy go for the captain building directly, I like the "new" Stuart, and the pack howitzer is a squad wiping machine. Armor doctrine is verry usefull right now - the M10s are better than ever. On the other hand I like the feeling of building Ez8s from T4 too.

All in all I like the faction and I think it's just about adaptation. After patch I was thinking that soviets are shit right now but studied a little and I realise now that they are just fine. USF is also fine, I'm sure about it.

It's advantage over the Panzershrek is it has a much higher ROF making it great against light vehicles. To bad Axis light vehicles don't exist

It can bounce twice as often then

Also its accuracy and light armor target size doesn't make it that effective at all, its a deterrent.

I've never really understood this "rifles scale poorly" argument, flamers/m1919's give you upgrades that vastly outperform lmg grens/volks on any map at any stage of the game.

Defensive stance is pure bs that lets you beat 440mp falls with a 70 muni upgrade. I'm pretty sure if the gren MG42 could suppress shock troops there would be pure outrage

I've never really understood this "rifles scale poorly" argument, flamers/m1919's give you upgrades that vastly outperform lmg grens/volks on any map at any stage of the game.

Defensive stance is pure bs that lets you beat 440mp falls with a 70 muni upgrade. I'm pretty sure if the gren MG42 could suppress shock troops there would be pure outrage

Its because of the received accuracy of rifles as well as their range limits that makes it hard to keep them in the game. That coupled with the 28mp reinforcement makes the bleed rly hard to keep more than 3 alive in a game at all times.
" flamers/m1919's" are also a doctrinal item and require you to lock yourself into a commander before the game even kicks off.


The real issue is the lack of elite infantry USF gets excluding the paras making an OKW player who spams Obers deadly as the MP drain on the USF player will be horribly hard to keep up.

I've never really understood this "rifles scale poorly" argument, flamers/m1919's give you upgrades that vastly outperform lmg grens/volks on any map at any stage of the game.

Defensive stance is pure bs that lets you beat 440mp falls with a 70 muni upgrade. I'm pretty sure if the gren MG42 could suppress shock troops there would be pure outrage

Defensive stance is good, but you know that's his plan. Get some munitions stored up and throw a grenade on him when it pops, he has to retreat. This works for literally any faction. It is especially nice for wehr who can drop Rnades at distance.

Also, as pointed out, these are doc upgrades. USF is so underwhelming as a faction right now.

Avoiding grenades while using defensive stance is very easy. And your assuming you can even close with the riflesquad in question to nade him before he kills you...

"Offensive stance" (don't kid yourself that's how people use it) needs to get fired into the sun and burn in hell alongside old button, old vet 2 riflenades, and old hit the dirt!

I think way to many people think the solution to USF problems is make them more blobby than they already are.

Avoiding grenades while using defensive stance is very easy. And your assuming you can even close with the riflesquad in question to nade him before he kills you...

"Offensive stance" (don't kid yourself that's how people use it) needs to get fired into the sun and burn in hell alongside old button, old vet 2 riflenades, and old hit the dirt!

I think way to many people think the solution to USF problems is make them more blobby than they already are.

Defensive stance needs a rework, but it is hardly "easy" to avoid grenades. Either you pop it and lose the bonuses, and begin a cool down timer, or you retreat. Played against it many times, while good and gimmicky its in no way unstoppable. ISG for OKW is a reliable threat to rifles doing this now too, and for a reasonable cost. If you want to get real nasty get a stuka and fire it on retreat path.

Not sure where you decided people wanted more "blobbyness" from in prior posts. Seems like people want rifles to be able to function by themselves so they don't have to blob. Lack of suppression units is a core problem with OKW, and a poor decision. Wehr obviously has no problem now that MG42 is T0 and still less than rifles per unit.

I get so sick of all the L2P posts. Forums are so full of trolls.

USF isn't just L2P issue - the faction sucks. There's like 3-4 units and few commanders that aren't completely broken. And there are massive holes in the tech - no heavy tanks, no rocket artillery, very little air power, no stock heavy infantry, and the darned support weapons are tech-split.

I know how to play, it's when I deviate from the extremely narrow and micro-intensive that I start to lose. There's just no room to branch out with the USF and the competitive element that there is is really bland.

The other thing too, most stuff the USF has just "doesn't quite work" - Capt "On ME" ability - only breaks suppression for the units around the capt but not the capt himself - what? Pack howitzer vet 2 barrage of 3 lousy shells changes to HEAT shells - but only for the barrage - what? Rear echelons have grenade launcher while inside fighting postion, but cant' have it outside, no other unit can fire grenade launcher in fighting position - what? Every time you heal you need to select the extremely vulnerable ambulence and heal - other factions don't have to do a thing. Why?

There's so many niche units, niche abilities, and so much micro. What if at the same moment that you're stunning/engine shotting a stug with you Stuart you also need to be clicking heal for your ambulence? It gets old quick. Why is USF so user-unfriendly.

Besides, nearly everyone's arguments about what is effective in the USF are mostly doctrinal - 1919s, paras, P47, easy 8 etc..

If you cant understand that USF isn't just a L2P you should Learn to Discuss.

Its because of the received accuracy of rifles as well as their range limits that makes it hard to keep them in the game. That coupled with the 28mp reinforcement makes the bleed rly hard to keep more than 3 alive in a game at all times.
" flamers/m1919's" are also a doctrinal item and require you to lock yourself into a commander before the game even kicks off.

Rifles are good at all ranges and are cost effective to boot, are you sure you're not talking about sturm pios here?

Doctrine choice is hardly an issue, short range map you can basically do what you want as BAR/flamer spam will kill everything. Even on a map like minsk you have choices, 50.cals, BAR pathfinders, m1919 rifles and paras are all good and they're hardly "locking" your doctrine options when USF don't have to rely on doctrinal call ins at all.

The real issue is the lack of elite infantry USF gets excluding the paras making an OKW player who spams Obers deadly as the MP drain on the USF player will be horribly hard to keep up.

Rifles with m1919's will out trade obers, or any other OKW infantry due to free supression. If you think 28mp is expensive try dealing with 50mp per model and a much longer reinforce time.

USF basic infantry (riflemen) vet scales them like all other basic infantry

And I stopped to read.


USF needs a double fix: one related to balance and other to diversify their opening. The key would be to do it all at the same time.

And I stopped to read.


USF needs a double fix: one related to balance and other to diversify their opening. The key would be to do it all at the same time.

if you would have read my post you would see that I posted the veterancy stats are they are similar in vet scaling to other basic infantry. jesus christ