Cruzz's The More You Know

Jump back to quoted post6 Jan 2018, 19:01 PMRedT3rror

Where can I find that collision hit in the mod tools?

If that's correct, aren't the armored troops even more in a disadvantage? After all the armour modifier only gets used if they are hit.

Jump back to quoted post6 Jan 2018, 19:01 PMRedT3rror

Where can I find that collision hit in the mod tools?

If that's correct, aren't the armored troops even more in a disadvantage? After all the armour modifier only gets used if they are hit.

Jump back to quoted post6 Jan 2018, 21:08 PMVipper

No.
Think of your example. The unit with smaller size depend on the shot missed to survive but with the "re-roll" every shot missed get another chance, the unit with armor get hit more often but get damage only some times so there are less "re-rolls".

this setting is only valid if can burst is true.

focus all the hit check on the primary target, Instead of randomly pick from the scatter area

Jump back to quoted post6 Jan 2018, 21:19 PMRedT3rror

I believe we are wrong about that focus_fire thing.

Jump back to quoted post6 Jan 2018, 21:24 PMVipper

If in doubt I suggest you test it in game.

Create a game in cheat mode and have a kubel firing on squad. Then check if the damage spread to more than one entity.

Then repeat with a single PG entity instead of kubel.

Jump back to quoted post6 Jan 2018, 21:48 PMRedT3rror

Obersoldaten are a good example. They use focus fire with the MG34 resulting in 1 model taking all the damage whereas a Kübelwagen distributes the damage among the units in the scatter circle.

I find the whole "re-roll" idea quite absurd.

Jump back to quoted post6 Jan 2018, 21:48 PMRedT3rror

Obersoldaten are a good example. They use focus fire with the MG34 resulting in 1 model taking all the damage whereas a Kübelwagen distributes the damage among the units in the scatter circle.

I find the whole "re-roll" idea quite absurd.

From my understanding there are no "re-rolls" - the target chosen for a "hit check" is chosen among the entities within the scatter radius (including the "primary target", which is the center of that circle)

That's kinda logical since you don't want burst weapons to annihilate squad members one by one.
The Obersoldaten MG34 has it set on true, explaining why they are so good in killing models.

Jump back to quoted post6 Jan 2018, 23:49 PMTobis

I was under the impression that no focus fire does the re-roll once on misses, not that it will randomly aim at any unit in the squad first. Possibly test with kubel vs soviet sniper team? If it does re-rolls then the model it targets should usually die first, if it doesn't either model has equal chance to die first.

My experience in game tells me the targeted model dies first a majority of the time. Look at this video that was in trending recently, the targeted sniper squad takes 2x the damage that the other squad takes. With re-rolls working the targeted entity should always take more hits than the others. Example with 30% accuracy:
3 outcomes
Model 1: 30% hit 70% miss
Model 2: 30% * 70% = 21% hit 79% miss
Nothing: 70% * 70% = 49% both miss

Show Spoiler

No focus fire is just a straight up buff to the weapon, literally an extra accuracy roll. Obers without focus fire would be even more deadly.

Jump back to quoted post7 Jan 2018, 09:50 AMLiberalPerturabo

Hello again.
I'm having a bit of trouble with the vehicle crit system in this game. I know that AT nades and fausts will always damage engine after a certain damage threshold (?) + specific abilities will score their own specific crits. But there are things like main gun destroyed and abandoned vehicle which I can't figure out. Are those absolutely random and can be caused by anything, or is there more to them?

Jump back to quoted post7 Jan 2018, 09:50 AMLiberalPerturabo

Hello again.
I'm having a bit of trouble with the vehicle crit system in this game. I know that AT nades and fausts will always damage engine after a certain damage threshold (?) + specific abilities will score their own specific crits. But there are things like main gun destroyed and abandoned vehicle which I can't figure out. Are those absolutely random and can be caused by anything, or is there more to them?

Jump back to quoted post7 Jan 2018, 08:41 AMVipper

*snip*

Jump back to quoted post6 Jan 2018, 23:49 PMTobis

*snip*

Jump back to quoted post9 Jan 2018, 13:54 PMRedT3rror

I did a test with the BAR. Set damage to 1, burst to 10000 rounds, accuracy to 50% on all ranges, got a target with 1 target size and 10000hp, made sure no vet is applied.

A single burst round left the target with ~50%.
Then I used to 2 targets, standing next to each other. This time a single burst would not drop the hp by 50%, instead it lost about ~31% while the other model, which was not targeted, lost about ~18%.

The myth of "re-rolls" is hereby debunked. Therefor guns with focus_fire enabled are superiour. The primary target however will be prioritized by weapons without focus_fire. By which modifiers the secondary targets are selected I can't say for sure - not of my interest though.

Jump back to quoted post9 Jan 2018, 13:54 PMRedT3rror

I did a test with the BAR. Set damage to 1, burst to 10000 rounds, accuracy to 50% on all ranges, got a target with 1 target size and 10000hp, made sure no vet is applied.

A single burst round left the target with ~50%.
Then I used to 2 targets, standing next to each other. This time a single burst would not drop the hp by 50%, instead it lost about ~31% while the other model, which was not targeted, lost about ~18%.

The myth of "re-rolls" is hereby debunked. Therefor guns with focus_fire enabled are superiour. The primary target however will be prioritized by weapons without focus_fire. By which modifiers the secondary targets are selected I can't say for sure - not of my interest though.

Jump back to quoted post9 Jan 2018, 14:54 PMMr.Smith

I've only tested this in the past with two PGren squads, one with focus fire set to on, and one with set to off, and the squad with focus fire set to off was winning by a large margin, when it was squad vs squad.

Conversely, when it was 1 model vs 1 model, I didn't notice any difference.

Your testbed is much better than the one I used, so it would be interesting to get hold of more data to know about how this works precisely.

Jump back to quoted post9 Jan 2018, 14:39 PMVipper

Not sure I agree with conclusion thou, for 1% difference. You are not taking into consideration the affect it creates when more entities are involved or when you firing at very high accuracy or the affect of other factors like aoe weapons grenades, flamer and...

Jump back to quoted post9 Jan 2018, 15:06 PMRedT3rror

Well, I admit my general statement about focus_fire being better was a bold one. I was solely thinking about the typical setup of 1 LMG doing the damage (MG42, MG34, Browning) and also ignored the possibility of several equally good weapons engaging different targets. That would explain why PG perform better.

Jump back to quoted post9 Jan 2018, 15:06 PMRedT3rror

Well, I admit my general statement about focus_fire being better was a bold one.

Jump back to quoted post9 Jan 2018, 15:18 PMMr.Smith

....
We don't know how focus fire works precisely, anyway. The reroll-on-miss is the most plausible theory, but a theory nonetheless.
...

Jump back to quoted post9 Jan 2018, 15:30 PMVipper

Maybe remove it from weapon that are HMG and be done with it?

Jump back to quoted post9 Jan 2018, 15:56 PMRedT3rror

I don't want to hear "re-roll" ever again! Show Spoiler

Nothing! Nichts! Nada! Niente! Rien!

All you have is 1 roll wether you hit the primary target or someone else within a small radius. Each possiblity has a different probability with the primary target having the highest.