CAS Pin Strafe + Recon + Stuka Dive Bomb in Base

Is this combo balanced? I used it in a game a few days ago to wipe four squads of guards. Admittedly, that's only time I've gotten it to work, and I’ve been trying for a long time, because of how trolltastic it is. What do you guys think? A suitable punishment for blobbing that is easily avoided with good play, or a cheesy combo?

Edit - I'd post a replay but I don't think games at my level necessarily prove something is unbalanced. Kinda why I'm looking for input here. I do have the replay if someone really wants to see it.

Every ability is skillbased, no loitering planes, so yes, it is balanced.

Every ability is skillbased, no loitering planes, so yes, it is balanced.

Moar balance inbound. Coming the other way, though.

it's a really heavy investment which really only pays dividends if your opponent is blobbing. now, with that said, i don't think it's the combination that's imbalanced, it's the inability to dodge the strafe, even when maintaining reasonable separation.

it's a really heavy investment which really only pays dividends if your opponent is blobbing. now, with that said, i don't think it's the combination that's imbalanced, it's the inability to dodge the strafe, even when maintaining reasonable separation.

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Yeah, that's kinda what I was thinking, actually. If you had to be seriously blobbing to get nailed down by the pin strafe that'd be different, but as it is, it just seems to me like you get very heavily punished for not even playing that badly...

Looking at the ammo cost, though, it's

Pin: 60 ammo
Recon: 35 ammo
Stuka bomb: 160 ammo
= 225 ammo in total.

If you manage to get 2 double m1919 riflemen with this, the enemy loses 280 ammo for your 225, besides the squad wipes. Hmm. Now that I write that out, maybe it's not actually that powerful a trap unless used on a blob.

Very hard to time correctly. Luftwaffe Supply flame bombs a lot better at punishing mass retreats.

They need to make the strafe easier to dodge, and I'd argue that giving recon with *any* doctrine that also has airstrikes is generally poor balance. At least the stukka strike requires some good timing, the AT strafe will wipe tanks left and right in larger game modes where your micro is being pushed to its breaking point and also wreck infantry if summoned on a retreat point or something.

Requires lot of munitions and really GOOD timing.
Nevertheless, the AI strafe pin area need to be smaller, cause it catches squad way out of the designated zone.

Every ability is skillbased, no loitering planes, so yes, it is balanced.

Dat ungodly amounts of skill you need to have to click recon and click stuka dive on arty.
Don't know, it might be skill ceiling for you, but for most other players its 2 EZ mode clicks to erase inconvenient unit.

CAS is broken period especially the munition conversion. It is basicly a crutch for OST. Almost every OST player hs this commander in 2v2 or his partner does. It takes hardly any skill. stuka dive bomb cant be shot done by aa. The area of effect for pin strafe is just nuts, its not blobing to have 3 different groups of soldiers attacking spread out but this can pin every infantry currently on your screen that your looking at.

Pin and dive bomb should not even be able to be used one right after another thats really broken against USF if your not watching for one second they pin your vehicle crews then send in dive bomb and there is nothing you can do really other than retreat your vehicle crews.

Completely screw USF in being able to use ambulence or major fwd retreat point at all. I mean I can micro just fine but its a bit nuts when they can all be called in one right after another and basicly you spend the whole game hiding from stuka dive bomb and trying to get away from anti vehicle strafe. You can basicly stop USF from being able to repair there vehicles what so ever.

Can't really attack with out more then 2 squads but axis can still blob and you can't beat a bunch of fusilers grens what have you always fighting 1 squad to 3.

Lost to CAS twice tonight not because the other players were skilled at all they were getting beat bad but low and behold OST calls in magical CAS bullshit because it is he only way they can win not by microing there infantry or tanks aparently.


Ai strafe needs to be way smaller aoe and should share a cooldown with at strafe but at least stuka dive bomb. Add CAS with say another OST that went lightning war then add the undodgeable tracking stuka loiter cas that erases all tanks another broken call in this one because it comes with a tiger and one shots all mediums and will track the armor all the way into your base even. cheaper than p47 and p47 does not one shot tanks so i dont want to hear that argument or just get a flak truck because me and my teamate do works ok i guess for rcon planes but not great really and to my knowledge cant shoot down dive bomb and most of the cas commander call ins or at least before they already make their assault.

Don't get me wrong im not saying its impossible to beat or anything like that, good micro of constantly moving your ambulence vehicle crews etc all game but its just dumb and sucks incredibly to play against late game when every 5 seconds you have to run from a strafe ir bomb while still trying to keep up an attack or defense when you cant repair your vehicles or heal your infantry. People love abusing broken stuff cause it works why I assume out of soo many OST commanders the magical comeback CAS commander is always equiped.

lol all these noob scrubs crying.

getting pinned? dont blob. period.
getting your tank strafed? there is a red smoke just like artillery.

They cost shitload of munitions and transfer = no tanks.

If you lose, you get outplayed

lol all these noob scrubs crying.

getting pinned? dont blob. period.
getting your tank strafed? there is a red smoke just like artillery.

They cost shitload of munitions and transfer = no tanks.

If you lose, you get outplayed

While I agree about blobbing, I cannot about AT strafe.

Well, it's quite easy to dodge if you have unit somewhere in the middle.
But if you have it near map's edge, you have 2secs since first red flare. In 2 secs you must notice this, match unit via mouse/hotkey and reverse + unit's acceleration. All of this lead us to the place where you cannot dodge, unless you already have unit matched when the first flares lands.

Personally, I havent lost much, since I'm trying to pay attention if there is recon. If there is, I'm moving in advance my all units.

But...

If you have enginge damage and you are reversing, recon+strafe and you have lost your tank without any chance to dodge it/counter it.

TWP + AT strafe is new abuse.

It's even more crazy with OKW's flares. You probably won't notice them right away, so if you have unit near the egde you can say goodbay to it.

AT staff is avoidable, on all areas of the map. I see it be avoided everyday. Ammo transfer means no/less armour. The recon/stuka/DB base is one more reason not to blobb. Complaining to see CAS every game? I can say the same about guards motor...

lol all these noob scrubs crying.

getting pinned? dont blob. period.
getting your tank strafed? there is a red smoke just like artillery.

They cost shitload of munitions and transfer = no tanks.

If you lose, you get outplayed

Not really its for the skilless. Dont need many tanks when the other team cant support theirs with infantry or your partner can just make the tanks why you make shitloads of mines, throw shitloads of rifle nades, lmgs shrecks thanks to resource conversion.

AT staff is avoidable, on all areas of the map. I see it be avoided everyday. Ammo transfer means no/less armour. The recon/stuka/DB base is one more reason not to blobb. Complaining to see CAS every game? I can say the same about guards motor...

Dont have problem with CAS commander at strafe, I was talking about the lightining war stuka cas in combinaion of a CAS doctine teamate. The stuka cas loiter cant be dodged.

Dont blob you mean dont support your tanks with infantry? I see axis doing that all the time with shrek mobs but that must somehow be different. And you usually want infantry around your tanks but not with ai strafe. How you lose tanks os not supporting them with infantry

Stuka AT staff that your talking about loiters, so it can be shot down after its first staff (200muni) and support your tanks with infantry all you want, just use different commands for all your units. Not single clicking 5 different units mass retreating. Something I see in 4/5 2v2 games these days...

in 2v2 okw flares + at strafe will cost you vehicles. Theres absolutely no way you can react if your units are on the edge of the map. You won't even see the flare in time.
You can go watch 'pro' 2v2 games and you'll see the very best players getting caught by it, everyone loses stuff to AT strafe.

CAS is an incredibly annoying doctrine to fight but its the lmg gren army that makes it OP imo.

That said allies certainly have their share of ridiculous doctrines.

or they use okw flares see your vehicle crews repairing call in ai strafe on your crews then call suka dive bomb and you have to retreat the crews or they just going to die too.

I don't mind the infantry strafing runs, you can dodgde them pretty easily if you don't blob but spread out. What I hate about it and love when I use it is the AT strafe. If I play soviets, I can make as many m5 quads AA vehicles as I want, the AT Stuka Strafe can't be stopped and it almost always kill my Kattyushas or drain almost all the health of a t34-76 and most of the time drains 50-60% of t34-85's health.

I spam them myself when I use the CAS, but it annoys me to death when I play against it, it is too easy to use. I admit that the doctrine has snatched me victory from the jaws of defeat on many occasions, it is such an easy doctrine to use xd

2 clicks killing howitzer, so much skill needed.

Suggestion: remove recon plane.