Pershing ?

Why are you guys acting like the Pershing will be an American KT?
They will also likely have a "heavy tank crew" similar to M20 crew, and will simply prevent you from building another until that crew is dead so no popcap abuse.

decrews pershing, sends crew to die, recrews with m20 crew, call another pershing

No doubt. Relic isn't THAT stupid,are they?

Money > Balance

Although I'm sure they have learn from their past mistakes. It's not like we are gonna have another Tiger Ace issue...right? Right?

Why are you guys acting like the Pershing will be an American KT?

It'll simply be an American Panther, but slow,and likely less armor than a panther. Which will be unique and balanced.
No doubt. Relic isn't THAT stupid,are they?
Even if Pershing turns out to be a true heavy,it's not like axis is limited in At Options. The only reason the IS2 is a problem is the ridiculous front armor it hAs,and the fact that you can abuse the fact that you don't have to tech by spamming them. Which was sort of fixed this patch.


They will also likely have a "heavy tank crew" similar to M20 crew, and will simply prevent you from building another until that crew is dead so no popcap abuse.

And assuming you'll have to tech for callins by the time Pershing is released, I doubt you'll be seeing giant fleets of jacksons and Pershing rectifying everything, because tech costs are OP. You'll likely need all 3 officers for it.
It also will still lose to JTKT+ JP4,or elefant + anything with a 75mm gun, no matter HOW op it manages to be.

A special crew wouldn't quite do the trick. You could still decrew, send the crew to its death, call in another and recrew with an RE.

There would not to be a more complex limiter in place. Keeping track of when the empty vehicle was on the field or when it was stolen by an enemy faction. The simplest, most elegant solution would be to just disable its crew.

Actually, now I think of it... If a Tiger gets abandoned does it still count towards the limit? Could that be used to get around it with some luck? Can heavy tanks even get the abandon crit anymore?

Why are you guys acting like the Pershing will be an American KT?
They will also likely have a "heavy tank crew" similar to M20 crew, and will simply prevent you from building another until that crew is dead so no popcap abuse.

And assuming you'll have to tech for callins by the time Pershing is released, I doubt you'll be seeing giant fleets of jacksons and Pershing rectifying everything, because tech costs are OP. You'll likely need all 3 officers for it.
It also will still lose to JTKT+ JP4,or elefant + anything with a 75mm gun, no matter HOW op it manages to be.

as people have already said it's easy to get around this

since when do callins require you to build anything? additionally, even if they do require something, it's only a single other building, not all of them.

Even so with all the popcap abuse,good luck trying to buy more than 1 pershing with USF manpower bleed,which everyone is forgetting about now that i've read the entire thread.

It wouldnt be anymore overpowered than double triple panthers,if you could actually pull it off.
the pershing isnt a true heavy tank. Its just not. its a crappy rushed U.S. excuse for one. It wasnt any more safe from pak40s/43s,tellers, and 37mm cannons from the stuka in real life and theres no reason for it to be that way ingame,besides 160-320 more health and a high enough armor value to actually bounce shreks,and shots from like P4s frontally,but nothing else. I simply refuse to believe it will even be THAT special. Unless relic goes full retard and makes it that way

You cant even afford to buy an airdropped combat group at 7cp manpower wise 98% of the time. How the hell are you gonna float nearly enough to call multiple pershings that will undoubtedly cost at least 500-600 manpower each at 200ish likely fuel and still be able to fight? ON top of tech costs. How will you make it to that point? USF cannot stall like soviets can. Especially not to the 11-12 cp that pershing would finally arrive at.

since when do callins require you to build anything? additionally, even if they do require something, it's only a single other building, not all of them.

I said it'll likely be the case when the pershing releases. Hopefully callin's will be fixed in that way by that time.

USF has a unique WFA tech system. I think all 3 officers to buy a pershing would be fair and interesting.
LT+MAJ vs T1+T3/4 or battlephases for ostheer is a bit unfair fuel wise in the favor of the USF callins.

OKW unlocks KT in this way as well with their WFA tech system. Why not USF.

If pershing is non doc, it should have the same requirements as KT

if not, It should only need t4

The pershing isnt a true heavy tank. Its just not. its a crappy rushed U.S. excuse for one. It wasnt any more safe from pak40s/43s,tellers, and 37mm cannons from the stuka in real life and theres no reason for it to be that way ingame,besides 160-320 more health and a high enough armor value to actually bounce shreks,and shots from like P4s frontally,but nothing else. I simply refuse to believe it will even be THAT special. Unless relic goes full retard and makes it that way.

The Tiger I was old hat by 1945, it could be defeated frontally by 76mm Shermans or T-34/85's. That didn't stop Relic from making it more like it's 1942 incarnation, very strong against all but the most powerful weapons.

No doubt. Relic isn't THAT stupid,are they?

Might as well give all sides a Stock heavy for that matter

The Tiger I was old hat by 1945, it could be defeated frontally by 76mm Shermans or T-34/85's. That didn't stop Relic from making it more like it's 1942 incarnation, very strong against all but the most powerful weapons.

the tiger is a piece of shit in this game,has been for a while, and is in fact defeated by 76mm shermans and 85s,and p47s,and ISUs,and SU85s,and jacksons,all frontally. I think relic represented that well.

the only tanks the tiger is strong against is lone vanilla shermans/t3476

I don't think we're playing the same game!

I don't think we're playing the same game!

oh we are,every 30 seconds a tiger is dying horribly to an t3485 mark vehicle/easy 8 swarm/P47 strike across the coh2 world.

In the current meta were Ostheer has pretty much zero issue taking care of enemy infantry the Elefant is much more smart option than a Tiger 1 is.

oh we are,every 30 seconds a tiger is dying horribly to an t3485 mark vehicle/easy 8 swarm/P47 strike across the coh2 world.

That's the thing though, in real life you didn't need a "swarm" to take out a Tiger I, you just needed one late-war Sherman / T-34 at a reasonable distance. A "swarm" of Panzer IV's will take out an IS-2 as well, and the IS-2 isn't a bad tank, sooo.

All heavies in the game have exaggerated survivability, not only extra armour compared to a normal tank but also extra HP. In reality one nasty penetrating hit to the side could take out your expensive Konigstiger just like it could a Stug III, but part of CoH is exagerating unit survivability so that you have a chance to retreat in good order. You could make a case for heavies only having more armour, not more HP, but I think most people would stop using them if that were the case.

soviet should get SU-100 as a new toy

oh we are,every 30 seconds a tiger is dying horribly to an t3485 mark vehicle/easy 8 swarm/P47 strike across the coh2 world.

We can only hope that one day, axis commanders will stop following their one and only fuhrer's orders of "capture/hold this territory to the last men", use the brains of their own and stop suicide single tiger against 2-4 tanks that were made to fight it and instead will support it with AT guns and other tanks, for it is not a doomsday tank it once was.

The Tiger I was old hat by 1945, it could be defeated frontally by 76mm Shermans or T-34/85's. That didn't stop Relic from making it more like it's 1942 incarnation, very strong against all but the most powerful weapons.

Uhu, the only problem was the 76mm Sherman and T34/85s needing to be under 500 meters to have even a change of penetrating the tiger frontally, where the Tiger H1 could penetrate them at ranges well over 1500 meters

When the Soviet High Command tested a captured German Tiger H1 back in 1943, they were shocked to see that the only guns capable of penetrating the tiger frontally were the 85mm and higher calibers. Yet the 85mm needed to close in at about 300 meters to stand a fair change of penetrating the front. Untill they designed tanks with larger caliber guns (Is2 etc) the 85 mm would be fitted on the t34/85s as a stop gap.

'Soviet firing tests against a captured Tiger I heavy tank in April 1943 showed that the T-34's 76 mm gun could not penetrate the front of the Tiger I at all, and the side only at very close range. A Soviet 85 mm antiaircraft gun, the 52-K, was found capable of doing the job, and so derivatives of it were developed for tanks. The resulting tank gun could penetrate the side armour of the Tiger I from a distance of 800 meters and the turret side from a distance of 600 meters. It was still not enough to match the Tiger, as a Tiger could destroy the T-34 from a distance of 1,500 to 2,000 meters,but it was a noticeable improvement.'

* Pyatakhin, Dmitry. "The New Generation of Soviet Armor vs. Tigers". Achtung Panzer. Retrieved 2014-12-22.

Uhu, the only problem was the 76mm Sherman and T34/85s needing to be under 500 meters to have even a change of penetrating the tiger frontally, where the Tiger H1 could penetrate them at ranges well over 1500 meters

When the Soviet High Command tested a captured German Tiger H1 back in 1943, they were shocked to see that the only guns capable of penetrating the tiger frontally were the 85mm and higher calibers. Yet the 85mm needed to close in at about 300 meters to stand a fair change of penetrating the front. Untill they designed tanks with larger caliber guns (Is2 etc) the 85 mm would be fitted on the t34/85s as a stop gap.

'Soviet firing tests against a captured Tiger I heavy tank in April 1943 showed that the T-34's 76 mm gun could not penetrate the front of the Tiger I at all, and the side only at very close range. A Soviet 85 mm antiaircraft gun, the 52-K, was found capable of doing the job, and so derivatives of it were developed for tanks. The resulting tank gun could penetrate the side armour of the Tiger I from a distance of 800 meters and the turret side from a distance of 600 meters. It was still not enough to match the Tiger, as a Tiger could destroy the T-34 from a distance of 1,500 to 2,000 meters,but it was a noticeable improvement.'

* Pyatakhin, Dmitry. "The New Generation of Soviet Armor vs. Tigers". Achtung Panzer. Retrieved 2014-12-22.

Soviet firing tests recorded that tigers can be penetrated by 85mm guns at ~1000m. This is quite basic knowledge , considering that both the 76mm M1 and 85mm soviet guns had about ~100mm of armor penetration at 1000m. Which is what the tigers frontal armor was.

Soviet firing tests recorded that tigers can be penetrated by 85mm guns at ~1000m. This is quite basic knowledge , considering that both the 76mm M1 and 85mm soviet guns had about ~100mm of armor penetration at 1000m. Which is what the tigers frontal armor was.

They didn't. Where is your evidence? I posted mine.

Soviet firing tests recorded that tigers can be penetrated by 85mm guns at ~1000m

If research puts it otherwise, only being able to penetrate the side armor at 800 meters, where is the evidence for these claims? I just stated the original Tiger I fire test that concluded very differently.

considering that both the 76mm M1 and 85mm soviet guns had about ~100mm of armor penetration at 1000m. Which is what the tigers frontal armor was.

Paper is far removed from reality..

Pop says bring on the lovely pershing. Yummy yummy.

Dare I say it'd be a change from late game p47 spam.

Just gimme more commanders as USF (and yes OKW).
I want more units to play with!