Can we plz fix the Rifle nade?

Jump back to quoted post3 Jul 2015, 11:05 AMTheMachine

Regardless of weapon teams, Rifle Nades are just a really poorly designed mechanic. They don't clear garrisons properly, which is what they're supposed to do, instead they result in gimmicky, effortless squad wipes.

Firing a Rifle nade over a shot blocker that you literally can not see coming and have no time to dodge because it's instant detonate resulting in a squad wipe is just silly. It also makes no sense how they detonate instantly, combined with the fact they have the best animation that can be very hard to spot compared to other grenade animations. It also breaks late game and makes LMG Grens far stronger than what they should be, because it makes other long range LMG unable to remain static for fear of being instawiped. This encourages blobbing because you can't risk fighting on multiple fronts against Rifle Nades.

Giving Grenadiers regular grenades like Volks or Fusileers would be a great chance to not only increase the viability of allied support teams, but also just to decrease the skilless "free" squad wipes and result in more tactical play. It would also help Ost clearing garrisons which is something they lack.

Jump back to quoted post3 Jul 2015, 11:05 AMTheMachine

Regardless of weapon teams, Rifle Nades are just a really poorly designed mechanic. They don't clear garrisons properly, which is what they're supposed to do, instead they result in gimmicky, effortless squad wipes.

Firing a Rifle nade over a shot blocker that you literally can not see coming and have no time to dodge because it's instant detonate resulting in a squad wipe is just silly. It also makes no sense how they detonate instantly, combined with the fact they have the best animation that can be very hard to spot compared to other grenade animations. It also breaks late game and makes LMG Grens far stronger than what they should be, because it makes other long range LMG unable to remain static for fear of being instawiped. This encourages blobbing because you can't risk fighting on multiple fronts against Rifle Nades.

Giving Grenadiers regular grenades like Volks or Fusileers would be a great chance to not only increase the viability of allied support teams, but also just to decrease the skilless "free" squad wipes and result in more tactical play. It would also help Ost clearing garrisons which is something they lack.

Jump back to quoted post3 Jul 2015, 11:05 AMTheMachine

Regardless of weapon teams, Rifle Nades are just a really poorly designed mechanic. They don't clear garrisons properly, which is what they're supposed to do, instead they result in gimmicky, effortless squad wipes.

Firing a Rifle nade over a shot blocker that you literally can not see coming and have no time to dodge because it's instant detonate resulting in a squad wipe is just silly. It also makes no sense how they detonate instantly, combined with the fact they have the best animation that can be very hard to spot compared to other grenade animations. It also breaks late game and makes LMG Grens far stronger than what they should be, because it makes other long range LMG unable to remain static for fear of being instawiped. This encourages blobbing because you can't risk fighting on multiple fronts against Rifle Nades.

Giving Grenadiers regular grenades like Volks or Fusileers would be a great chance to not only increase the viability of allied support teams, but also just to decrease the skilless "free" squad wipes and result in more tactical play. It would also help Ost clearing garrisons which is something they lack.

Jump back to quoted post3 Jul 2015, 11:05 AMTheMachine

Regardless of weapon teams, Rifle Nades are just a really poorly designed mechanic. They don't clear garrisons properly, which is what they're supposed to do, instead they result in gimmicky, effortless squad wipes.

Firing a Rifle nade over a shot blocker that you literally can not see coming and have no time to dodge because it's instant detonate resulting in a squad wipe is just silly. It also makes no sense how they detonate instantly, combined with the fact they have the best animation that can be very hard to spot compared to other grenade animations. It also breaks late game and makes LMG Grens far stronger than what they should be, because it makes other long range LMG unable to remain static for fear of being instawiped. This encourages blobbing because you can't risk fighting on multiple fronts against Rifle Nades.

Giving Grenadiers regular grenades like Volks or Fusileers would be a great chance to not only increase the viability of allied support teams, but also just to decrease the skilless "free" squad wipes and result in more tactical play. It would also help Ost clearing garrisons which is something they lack.

Jump back to quoted post3 Jul 2015, 22:23 PMNapalm

They need to fire two rifle nades in rapid succession. Also, a little bit a suppression wouldn't be a terrible thing.

Jump back to quoted post3 Jul 2015, 21:55 PMAlexzandvar

It would be extremely unbalanced for Grens do have regular grenades. Why? Because grens are long range focused. They are countered by closing to close range with them and duking it out were they have the least DPS on their LMG and take the most damage from you. They also can't use their rifle grenade in CQC.

Now if they had a regular potato masher? You could just throw a grenade in the path your enemy is rushing you from to wipe them. I don't think the solution to rifle nades over preforming is to make Ostheers basic infantry unit good at every range and situation they might encounter.

Jump back to quoted post3 Jul 2015, 23:38 PMNuclear Arbitor

sure sounds like you're saying volks are OP because they're a long ranged squad with a short ranged grenade. point being that the combination of a long ranged attack and a short ranged ability is not an issue unless they combo to well together.

ironically, grens would be well served with the molly and cons with a regular nade since that would let grens deny ground in front of them and let cons do immediate damage once they took loses getting into range.

Jump back to quoted post3 Jul 2015, 23:47 PMAlexzandvar

Volks don't have LMG's, nor do have the long range DPS of grens. Volks are just all around average infantry meant to screen for the real damage dealers and plug holes in defensive lines. The reason why potato mashers on Volks also aren't problematic is that OKW has reduced muni income.

Volks are more analogous to rifleman then they are to regular grens.

Jump back to quoted post4 Jul 2015, 00:04 AMNuclear Arbitor

volks can get LMGs via drops and it still doesn't make them decent squads without schrecks. the AI power of volks lies in their nades; they don't get wipes by shooting at things.

grens having long range damage AND a long range ability makes them much stronger than if they had a long ranged attack and short ranged ability because 1, long ranged things are better, and 2, they can deal a LOT of damage at those ranges. just having good long ranged damage doesn't mean much unless it's on the level of obers or paras with their respective LMGs; look at grens before the RG buff when maxims ran over both grens and MG42s.

Jump back to quoted post4 Jul 2015, 00:11 AMAlexzandvar

Let me rephrase. Grens biggest weakness is close range CQC combat. Right now Grens overall are bretty good and it's done well for making Ostheer early game less brutal. The issue with giving them potato mashers would be 2 fold;

1. Making them much much better in CQC, and making it harder to exploit their main weakness
2. It would give Ost to much building clearance on top of the already excellent Ost mortar making building maps hellish for allies.

Rifle nades just need a change to be not able to fire at full range while suppressed and not have crazy insane vet 2 accuracy. We don't really need anything drastic here.

Jump back to quoted post4 Jul 2015, 02:14 AMNuclear Arbitor

gren's weakness isn't in them being poor at close combat though, it's that that's the best range for most of the infantry they'll face.

removing the RG and replacing it with a hand grenade would make grens stronger at close range but it would drastically weaken their long range and the increase in their close range would be negated by player skill and attention.

i don't think grens need to have the RG swapped with an HG (changes to the RG would be enough) but overall such a change would be a nerf to grens, not a buff.

Jump back to quoted post4 Jul 2015, 02:23 AMSierra

Or it could just be like I've suggested about a half dozen times. Just reduce the rifle-grenades range by 15-20% as it scales with Vet. In return the Grenadiers can get the hand-grenade.

It would mean grenadiers would have 2x grenades, but access to an early hand grenade would be beneficial to Grenadiers to handle the close-quarters bullying that they face from Soviets and especially Americans. The other side of this is that the extreme range that Allied weapons teams and units face from the rifle grenade would be brought in line to a more reasonable area.

Jump back to quoted post4 Jul 2015, 02:23 AMSierra

Or it could just be like I've suggested about a half dozen times. Just reduce the rifle-grenades range by 15-20% as it scales with Vet. In return the Grenadiers can get the hand-grenade.

It would mean grenadiers would have 2x grenades, but access to an early hand grenade would be beneficial to Grenadiers to handle the close-quarters bullying that they face from Soviets and especially Americans. The other side of this is that the extreme range that Allied weapons teams and units face from the rifle grenade would be brought in line to a more reasonable area.

Jump back to quoted post4 Jul 2015, 05:15 AMBeefSurge

You throw one of those early game. My M20 then systematically murders your entire army.

Ostheer is munitions starved, especially early game. Munis won't be spent on something that can also be accomplished through skill. (Engaging Riflemen and Cons with Grens.)