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Ostheer Dedicated "TD" need 60 Range as Others

24 Jun 2015, 21:11 PM
#21
avatar of GiaA

Posts: 713 | Subs: 2



The coaxial one on the Panther (which is what I thought he was talking about) only has 6 at point blank. But yeah regardless of the performance of the MG's it still doesn't justify the insane cost for the Ostheer Panther.



Let me put it simply. Something being worse than everything else cannot be justified through the lens of "asymmetrical balance".


However the Stug isn't worse than everything else. It does actually possess an above average quality.
24 Jun 2015, 21:33 PM
#22
avatar of daspoulos

Posts: 1116 | Subs: 1

Permanently Banned
I do believe all TDs are mostly fine. Minus jagdpanzers recloaking while in combat, and jacksons autopen 240 damage per shot ability.
24 Jun 2015, 21:37 PM
#23
avatar of Alexzandvar

Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1



From what I know alex never plays 1v1s. That makes his statements even stranger.


It doesn't make them wrong. I play 2v2's most out of any game mode and I can count the amount of times Iv made an Ostheer panther in the past 6 months and seen it get good efficiency on 1 hand.

However the Stug isn't worse than everything else. It does actually possess an above average quality.


My issue isn't with the StuG, but the Ost Panther.
24 Jun 2015, 21:37 PM
#24
avatar of spajn
Donator 11

Posts: 927

It is a axis TD ofcourse it has to be the worst, why would anyone otherwise play allies? :foreveralone:
25 Jun 2015, 00:45 AM
#25
avatar of Puppetmaster
Patrion 310

Posts: 871

Are people afraid that if they use the Ost Panther it will give them herpes or something?

I use it quite often especially when playing CAS (yes when using fuel > ammo convert). Its a decent tank even with the teching costs. They are much easier to keep alive than allied tanks, just requires some micro instead of some yolo blitz play.
25 Jun 2015, 00:51 AM
#26
avatar of ferwiner
Donator 11

Posts: 2885

Are people afraid that if they use the Ost Panther it will give them herpes or something?

I use it quite often especially when playing CAS (yes when using fuel > ammo convert). Its a decent tank even with the teching costs. They are much easier to keep alive than allied tanks, just requires some micro instead of some yolo blitz play.


Yeah I even used it with a success in 1v1 recently while using CAS. It killed kv8 and is-2 with the help of shrecked pgrens and made it out alive. If I invested in double p4 one of them would die so the outcome would be worse. On the other hand then I didn't have stug option. They may kind of make panther feel worse this patch.
25 Jun 2015, 01:01 AM
#27
avatar of Sierra

Posts: 432

jump backJump back to quoted post24 Jun 2015, 20:57 PMVonIvan

It's cost effective in 2v2 and above. :foreveralone:


Von, I must have a link to the video of Chris Pratt in that interview you use for your signature. Thanks babe. :wub:
25 Jun 2015, 04:37 AM
#28
avatar of Storm267

Posts: 128

After playing around with the new stug I will say we are fine on TD's. I had 2 stugs (vet 3) 1 panther, and 1 ostwind. Enemy armor was shut down. I didn't have a pak because my partner had that covered.
25 Jun 2015, 05:03 AM
#29
avatar of daspoulos

Posts: 1116 | Subs: 1

Permanently Banned
Increase Stug cost to 100 fuel, or replace TWP with shell switching. As for the stug e? Well shit idk. Replace it with the stuh 105. Jk as great as that sounds we know it won't happen.
25 Jun 2015, 05:27 AM
#30
avatar of Grumpy

Posts: 1954

jump backJump back to quoted post24 Jun 2015, 21:02 PMGiaA


What's a "TD" ? Tank Depot ? You can't directly compare the different tiers of the factions. Some of them are linear (USF, Wehr) some aren't (OKW, Soviet). And yes the T34 is underpowered but how does that matter right now ? I never even mentioned the T34 wtf. Every faction has its advantages and disadvantages and that's how it's supposed to be.


The Panther is not a tank destroyer. It's an extremely good medium tank that was given longer range than any other faction's medium tanks. Evidently, that isn't enough for some and they NEED it to be 60 instead of everyone else's 40.

Ost's other TD is the Elefant, with 70 range compared to 60 for all Allies tank destroyers, and its 320 damage is double most Allied TD's, can spot for itself (or everybody when equipped with spotting scope) combined with penetrating on every shot, which was clearly another NEED for some.

PS - I've played with Stug G's since the patch and they're really good, especially when Vet 3.
25 Jun 2015, 05:44 AM
#31
avatar of Ohme
Honorary Member Badge
Donator 11

Posts: 889 | Subs: 1

Let me put it simply. Something being worse than everything else cannot be justified through the lens of "asymmetrical balance".


I believe the problem with your viewpoint on asymmetrical balance is that you have oversimplified the issue by throwing asymmetrical out the window. The change is not justified by asymmetrical balance, but it is guided by the idea. Asymmetric balance is a set of choices made regarding the components within a system, and not two components to each other.

We do not say "Conscript dies to P4 therefore P4 OP" because it is not good reasoning. This statement does not achieve balance, because Conscripts and P4s don't exist alone within the system. The same is true for "Stug G has shorter range than Other tanks of similar type, therefore Stug G needs buff".

I'm not even here to argue about the Stug G, more so to argue about the way you argue.

AREGUECEPTION
25 Jun 2015, 05:45 AM
#32
avatar of BrutusHR

Posts: 262

jump backJump back to quoted post25 Jun 2015, 05:27 AMGrumpy


The Panther is not a tank destroyer. It's an extremely good medium tank that was given longer range than any other faction's medium tanks. Evidently, that isn't enough for some and they NEED it to be 60 instead of everyone else's 40.


Ok, an extremely good medium tank is also extremely expensive to get and extremely bad DPS and extremely bad against infantry.

You use it only against armor, that is what matters, tank hunter or TD is more appropriate name.
OKW one is fine, but ostheer one is not fine, either buff up DPS (not preferred) or just adjust teching.

Hopefully, we will see that in the next patch... in november :snfCHVGame:
25 Jun 2015, 06:36 AM
#33
avatar of Alexzandvar

Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post25 Jun 2015, 05:44 AMOhme




Yeah, but I don't think the StuG G needs a buff. What I do think is working from within the current system that the Ostheer Panther comes way to late at to high of a cost compared to:

-Call in's
-Normal Enemy Tech Progression


The OKW Panther is in a much better place, not to soon, but not to late.
25 Jun 2015, 07:33 AM
#34
avatar of Ful4n0

Posts: 345



Wow a whole 6 DPS at point blank range, with a max range of 35 that sure is great on a tank that you never want to use close to infantry.



this is plain wrong....as usual from Alex......
25 Jun 2015, 08:47 AM
#35
avatar of Alexzandvar

Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post25 Jun 2015, 07:33 AMFul4n0



this is plain wrong....as usual from Alex......


I wasn't wrong, we were talking about different MG's.
25 Jun 2015, 09:58 AM
#36
avatar of Firesparks

Posts: 1930

the ost pak is still the best atg in the game. you shouldn't expect the stug to be your only at solution. Against jackson and su-85 you need to be using pak as well as panther and stug.
25 Jun 2015, 10:49 AM
#37
avatar of Rollo

Posts: 738

Jackson massively outperforms the StuG for a feeble extra amount of fuel, I think a slight fuel increase and 60 range for the StuG would be fair.
25 Jun 2015, 11:02 AM
#38
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post25 Jun 2015, 10:49 AMRollo
Jackson massively outperforms the StuG for a feeble extra amount of fuel, I think a slight fuel increase and 60 range for the StuG would be fair.


35 fuel or over 30% of stug cost is "feeble extra" to you?

And while we're at it, lets give T34/76 a slight fuel increase and 180 armor and P4 scatter and reload as well, because why not? Then T34/76 would be fair.
25 Jun 2015, 11:02 AM
#39
25 Jun 2015, 11:23 AM
#40
avatar of CieZ

Posts: 1468 | Subs: 4

Alex is being silly as usual. Ost has the best AT gun in the game, doctrinal access to pak43 and elefant(for team games) and schrecks. The last thing in the world they need is baseline 60 range TDs. 60 range Panther would be batshit overpowered. Stug g is amazingly efficient and effective this patch.

The only thing that might be off is ost tech costs for t4 in 1v1, but even then I've seen more and more people going for it in 1s recently.
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