Tiger and IS2

Well, you (and inevitably alex) are the only ones then. Cruzzi explains the difference in AI nicely, ask him around on streams.

Man If I had a dollar for every time you mentioned me in a thread I hadn't posted in....

The difference between the IS2 and Tiger I when facing infantry is that the IS2 is more about 1 shots, Tiger is more about DPS.

Man If I had a dollar for every time you mentioned me in a thread I hadn't posted in....

I was tempted to say that too, but then, if you had, I would be jalous. Because you would be richer than me.

IS2 missing shots against infantry makes it less polyvalent than tiger, who usually hits harder against infantry. Considering this + PAK 40 vet 1 hability, I think axis combo is better.

Don't we have this thread already?

Don't we have this thread already?

We do and we will every single month for next few years.

When it'll stop?

When we have histerical accuracy and krupp stahl triumph over puny allied armor.

I really do feel like IS2 is better vs Infantry.

When used against me, IS2 seems to wipe more, but Tiger kills faster and forces more retreats. Infantry around IS2 feels like inverse lottery (miss, long wait, miss, long wait, squad wipe). Tiger sometimes one shots, but more often gets 2-3 models and forces retreat.

IS2 doesn't need nerf any more than any other heavy tank. It is anything but invincible.

Went Tiger 1 after a while of not getting one. Found it to be awful. Id stick to my nerfed KT over that any day. At least you can use a KT as a meat shield to absorb some shots. Do that with Tiger 1 it will be gone in seconds. Thing is made of paper now.

Expected "below 10 posts troll reply".

Feel free to prove me wrong.
You know how to upload replays I presume.

Low post numbers mean you are a troll. I see, nice way to encourage people to post more tho.
I dont need to test you hypothetical 1 IS-2 + 1 Zis vs 1 Tiger + 1 Pak setup ingame, to know it is unrealistic. What you never mentioned is the early game advantage Soviets have over any of the German factions. People struggle to get 1 Tiger out whilst Soviets just keep on spamming IS-2. Also it is much easier for the Soviet player to support his stuff then for his enemy who has to risk squads during flanking due to extremly fragile squads.

The nerf of the once quite OP Tiger (1 year + ago) made the expensive panthers viable. Chalk it up to game design IMHO.

Part of the reasoning behind the soviet IS2 having so much more armor is the fact that it fights generally better AT units. Units like the pak40, Panther, JT, elephant, and the pak43 are much better options than anything that allied players have. On top of this, it is also the only real "lategame" tank that the soviets have, as compared to the panther for both axis factions. The soviets are forced to rely on terrible units nondoctrinaly, so they naturally crutch on doctrines that provide them with lategame power.

I can assure you right now, that if, theoretically, heavy tanks were to come into play later and have a limit to the number out at the same time, the balance would skew greatly into axis favor as the game goes on, since 1 panther supporting a tiger is infinetly more potent than 2 t34/76s supporting an IS2, especially when you factor in the supporting AT.

What I am trying to get at is that the soviets are an army that has a grand total of 2 functioning options in terms of well-balanced army compositions for the lategame, and they are both stuck behind commanders. If you make soviet callins pointless, we will go into a period wherein the Soviets will be wrecked by every faction in the lategame, because their lategame options are literally nonexistent outside of doctrinal units. Soviets NEED a redesign, before their house of cards comes flopping down.

This isn't to say that I think that the callin meta is fine, I am merely stating that the current IS2/85 "callin meta" that we are stuck in is a result of multiple design flaws in the soviet army structure, and that many changes will be needed to be made before it can truly be fixed. You cannot look at one unit and say "OP" without looking at how that unit is affecting the rest of the faction as a whole.

Kappa Kappa and Kappa

Part of the reasoning behind the soviet IS2 having so much more armor is the fact that it fights generally better AT units. Units like the pak40, Panther, JT, elephant, and the pak43 are much better options than anything that allied players have. On top of this, it is also the only real "lategame" tank that the soviets have, as compared to the panther for both axis factions. The soviets are forced to rely on terrible units nondoctrinaly, so they naturally crutch on doctrines that provide them with lategame power.

I can assure you right now, that if, theoretically, heavy tanks were to come into play later and have a limit to the number out at the same time, the balance would skew greatly into axis favor as the game goes on, since 1 panther supporting a tiger is infinetly more potent than 2 t34/76s supporting an IS2, especially when you factor in the supporting AT.

What I am trying to get at is that the soviets are an army that has a grand total of 2 functioning options in terms of well-balanced army compositions for the lategame, and they are both stuck behind commanders. If you make soviet callins pointless, we will go into a period wherein the Soviets will be wrecked by every faction in the lategame, because their lategame options are literally nonexistent outside of doctrinal units. Soviets NEED a redesign, before their house of cards comes flopping down.

This isn't to say that I think that the callin meta is fine, I am merely stating that the current IS2/85 "callin meta" that we are stuck in is a result of multiple design flaws in the soviet army structure, and that many changes will be needed to be made before it can truly be fixed. You cannot look at one unit and say "OP" without looking at how that unit is affecting the rest of the faction as a whole.

What terrible nondoctrinaly units are we talking about here? Apart from the SU-76 (and maybe the t34/76) every unit they can field is decent and they can have alot of stuff on the field all the time, which many of you seem to forget.

What terrible nondoctrinaly units are we talking about here? Apart from the SU-76 (and maybe the t34/76) every unit they can field is decent and they can have alot of stuff on the field all the time, which many of you seem to forget.

the only decent stock armour they get is the su-85 which has all the problems that casement TDs have. i don't consider the SU-85 bad, although others do, but it's got limited uses and when it doesn't work your only other option is the zis, which has very similar weaknesses. and that's assuming you went t2/4.

What terrible nondoctrinaly units are we talking about here? Apart from the SU-76 (and maybe the t34/76) every unit they can field is decent and they can have a lot of stuff on the field all the time, which many of you seem to forget.

T34/76
T-70
Su-76
SU-85

^These units are supposed to form the backbone of the soviet lategame. Not only can you not have access to all of them at the same time, but not one of them (with the exception of the T70), is performing up to its cost.

The T34/76 is too expensive for what it gives you. It is a decent tank, but it is not worth 310mp and 100fu.

The SU-76 needs no introduction.

The Su-85 works well, but it needs an accuracy buff. It has a hard time hitting targets that are moving, and does even worse on the move (rotation counts as movement in game).

If the T34/76 and the SU85 came together, they would make more sense, but as independent "top tier" units for the soviets, they are not nearly good enough.

Playing as a German against an IS2 is a torture.
The annoying thing is that the IS2 wipes PaKs in 1 shot about 75% of the time.
Soviet wiping potential is bigger overall. You can get 3 PaKs to defeat an IS2 and all three will be wiped by a single katyusha barrage.

I had 2 pak + 3 stolen Zis vs 2 IS2s and I was forced to retreat with 2 AT guns left. Others got one shot wiped. The IS2s bounced most of the shots with the front armor.
Only units that can deal with IS2 are elephant (needs lots of support) and panthers.
I know your stuggle. Katyusha just makes things worse. That and the incendiary barrage that comes in the same commander.

If the T34/76 and the SU85 came together, they would make more sense, but as independent "top tier" units for the soviets, they are not nearly good enough.

just wait

We do and we will every single month for next few years.

When it'll stop?

When we have histerical accuracy and krupp stahl triumph over puny allied armor.

No matter how many times we will have this thread it will still not equal the number of whining threads related to OKW's every single unit. So pudding off.

No matter how many times we will have this thread it will still not equal the number of whining threads related to OKW's every single unit. So pudding off.

Really? There are a lot of whining threads about Demos and other allied stuff. I don't think people whine about OKW stuff anymore after the Obers issue was addressed

Part of the reasoning behind the soviet IS2 having so much more armor is the fact that it fights generally better AT units. Units like the pak40, Panther, JT, elephant, and the pak43 are much better options than anything that allied players have.

The JT, Elephant and Pak43 never bounce anyway.
Besides, the Pak40 is a ZiS with TWP and the Panther is an IS 2 with less AI and Blitz.

I kinda don't understand the 'better AT units' argument. IS 2 will scare off anything that isn't a 200+ fuel tank destroyer and any kind of infantry or AT gun. The ISU has excellent AT characteristics, the 85s have speed and mark target and a very high DPS, The Jacksons penetrate everything except for the Jagdtiger.