Riflenades vs. Maxims

So your saying that riflenades counter unsupported maxims the same way as usf smoke+ nade counters unsupported mg's. good i believe we have achieved balance. '

This.

Rifle nades are a LOT better than smoke on average, wiping squads entirely or taking out most of them from long range. A smoke grenade gives you time to reposition or escape with your life. Rifle nades are also something that doesn't require a dedicated unlock. Smoke grenades are great, no question, but that has no connection to how amazing rifle nades are since the infantry grouping changes came into effect.

This discussion has nothing to do with unsupported maxims.

A maxim cannot be used as intended because Grens hard counter them even though maxims should beat Grens.

USF smoke does not kill MG's. It just forces the axis player to micro, its a mciro tax. Rifle nades have no micro counter, you fire outside of visual range and I lose men.

This discussion has nothing to do with unsupported maxims.

A maxim cannot be used as intended because Grens hard counter them even though maxims should beat Grens.

USF smoke does not kill MG's. It just forces the axis player to micro, its a mciro tax. Rifle nades have no micro counter, you fire outside of visual range and I lose men.

Other than your Maxim squads screaming grenade at the top of their lungs yeah you have no warning. The maxims reposition time makes avoiding standard nades fairly easy, which is why the rifle nade is so good.

I do support as mentioned earlier that squads grenades range should be halved or disabled once suppressed

Other than your Maxim squads screaming grenade at the top of their lungs yeah you have no warning. The maxims reposition time makes avoiding standard nades fairly easy, which is why the rifle nade is so good.

I do support as mentioned earlier that squads grenades range should be halved or disabled once suppressed

Are you serious?

You think an audio cue is enough time to move the maxim squad out from under the grenade. I hesitate to suggest this, but feel free to try to move it that fast and post a replay of it working. Also please post the number of times it did not work so we can have a fair comparison.

You think I don't know how to dodge grenades?

Are you serious?

You think an audio cue is enough time to move the maxim squad out from under the grenade. I hesitate to suggest this, but feel free to try to move it that fast and post a replay of it working. Also please post the number of times it did not work so we can have a fair comparison.

You think I don't know how to dodge grenades?

The gren will pause to fire the grenade, and then right as that happens the squad will shoat that a grenade is incoming. Yes there is little warning compared to other nades but this is by design as the riflenade takes more time get to it's target than a standard nade does.

If a person is flanking you and nading you then it's not an issue/OP, what IS OP and stupid is a gren walking into a maxims line of fire and using a rifle nade.

If your being shot at from the fog of war I would suggest sighting for your weapons teams, which is what you should be doing anyway.

Are you serious?

You think an audio cue is enough time to move the maxim squad out from under the grenade. I hesitate to suggest this, but feel free to try to move it that fast and post a replay of it working. Also please post the number of times it did not work so we can have a fair comparison.

You think I don't know how to dodge grenades?

well when u hear your sq yell engaging enemy, I believe you will use space bar to check them out if your maxim is engaging a gren, it is prob a very short counter is either they retreat or they acting going to use rifle nade (like one guy in kneeing) then that is plenty time for u to repostion your Maxim, the encounter usually last around 10-15sec. if an infantry got suppressed and they don't retreat usually it is HMG's turn to run because there is only 2 outcome from that, 1 they going to nade the HMG team, 2 they have other infantry to flank the HMG or both. either way u need reposition or retreat your HMG

I also find the rifle grenade - maxim dynamic silly. I can't think of an easy solution though. I like the rifle grenade dynamic otherwise, can't shoot close but can shoot far, the opposite of other grenades.

And another comparison in which specific units are compared in a vacuum and at only one specific point in time of a game.

Don't do that, people.

Always look at the factions as a whole when discussing units and always have the map styles and the early, the mid, and the late game in mind.

1. "Vet 2 gren rifle nade range is insane."

Yes, it is. So what? They can never be used in CQC, even at vet 3, while Molos can always be used at CQC. Depending on the map, this can be a huge drawback.

2. "Rifle nades do insane damage, while Molos only do lackluster damage."

Yes, they do. But remember what they are being used against. Maxims have six men and a short teardown time, while MG42s have only four men and a long teardown time. Also, the price tag of replacements for these weapon teams is different. Killing 2 MG42 crew member and killing 3-4 Maxim crew members is cost-wise actually pretty equal.

If you make the damage output of rifle nades and Molos equal, it will make one faction suffer dispropotionaly more.

3. "Maxims are totally useless vs vet 2 LMG grens"

Yes, they are. However, that only becomes relevant in the midgame and beyond. Think about the early game, too. In the early game, the Maxims own the grens. What do you want? You want the Maxim do be strong in the early game and stay strong through the late game? That sounds OP to me.

The Maxim is quite different from the MG42. It starts as a good offensive and a good defensive weapon, but drops in strength from the midgame onward. The MG42 in contrast starts as a crap offensive and a mediocre defensive weapon (lower suppression rate). It only starts getting good with vet from the midgame onward. Sounds balanced to me.

My biggest concern is the squad wipe potential.

yeah but all grenades like to squadwipe which is mostly thanks to the squads bunching up, of course the RGs range is here a factor but considering the disadvantages (like no melee nading) its pretty equal actually compared to other nades i find the RG a bit of a lacking as other nades are good in preventing melee attacks or disabling stuff the RG isnt, the RG is more for clearing HMG teams then killing squads but that maybe is more a personal flavor when it comes to nades

it has the best potential to squad wipe because of its range, there's no need to rush into the enemy and give away your intentions of throwing a nade.

squad bunching mechanics plays a part, but shaving off 3-4models off a squad is far too effective.

i can handle handgrenades, they are fairly easy to dodge, require some sort of judgement to score a hit. but riflenades? far too easy, far too effective and way too good on a unit that is already built for long range combat.

against maxims though, maxims are a problem of their own, its really against infantry that is the real problem.

1)give it a timer on landing, keep its current effectiveness. make it so that people who dont pay attention to their infantry takes a good hit.

And another comparison in which specific units are compared in a vacuum and at only one specific point in time of a game.

Don't do that, people.

Always look at the factions as a whole when discussing units and always have the map styles and the early, the mid, and the late game in mind.

1. "Vet 2 gren rifle nade range is insane."

Yes, it is. So what? They can never be used in CQC, even at vet 3, while Molos can always be used at CQC. Depending on the map, this can be a huge drawback.

2. "Rifle nades do insane damage, while Molos only do lackluster damage."

Yes, they do. But remember what they are being used against. Maxims have six men and a short teardown time, while MG42s have only four men and a long teardown time. Also, the price tag of replacements for these weapon teams is different. Killing 2 MG42 crew member and killing 3-4 Maxim crew members is cost-wise actually pretty equal.

If you make the damage output of rifle nades and Molos equal, it will make one faction suffer dispropotionaly more.

3. "Maxims are totally useless vs vet 2 LMG grens"

Yes, they are. However, that only becomes relevant in the midgame and beyond. Think about the early game, too. In the early game, the Maxims own the grens. What do you want? You want the Maxim do be strong in the early game and stay strong through the late game? That sounds OP to me.

The Maxim is quite different from the MG42. It starts as a good offensive and a good defensive weapon, but drops in strength from the midgame onward. The MG42 in contrast starts as a crap offensive and a mediocre defensive weapon (lower suppression rate). It only starts getting good with vet from the midgame onward. Sounds balanced to me.

Great argument! I mean that. Very good Logic. But there is one huge problem. You just did the same thing. Compared them in a vacuum. The Rnade is insane for more reasons then just the Maxim. At Vet 2 you can hit and whipe squads from outside their visual range that are not Maxims.

Rnades are the very best grenade in game right now. Mainly due to the cover mechanics. It as well as other AOE needs to be tweaked. As you have almost no time to react. Voice queues are not enough as there is a buffer for them. Built a tank tank says "Hi I hit the field!" now the Grenade! Scream comes late and you just lost your squad.

The argument that RNades are needed to deal with 6 man squads is also silly. So what are you supposed to do as USF?

Also Grens do great damage, so if you get a flank you will get the maxim. But if you are trying to kill MG's with frontline inf (which are supposed to be controlled by them) then I have no pity for you. Go get your mortar or your amazingly good sniper. Or use your MG to suppress it. Don't come to me and tell me the Grens need to be able to single handily take on an MG.

The argument that RNades are needed to deal with 6 man squads is also silly. So what are you supposed to do as USF?

Also Grens do great damage, so if you get a flank you will get the maxim. But if you are trying to kill MG's with frontline inf (which are supposed to be controlled by them) then I have no pity for you. Go get your mortar or your amazingly good sniper. Or use your MG to suppress it. Don't come to me and tell me the Grens need to be able to single handily take on an MG.

Actually the maxim will simply turn around and nullify the flank. which was a key reason maxim spam was such a problem in the first place. Gren nades are very good vs mg's but you have to take in account that the mobility of the allied mg's.

Actually the maxim will simply turn around and nullify the flank. which was a key reason maxim spam was such a problem in the first place.

Not if you micro the flankers anymore they won't. The horizontal traverse nerf worked as advertised - I have seen plenty of Maxims try to reposition on my flankers and none of them have succeeded in suppressing the flankers that keep moving out of their firing arc.

maxim spam? that's so 2013.

maxim spam? that's so 2013.

Lets keep it that way shall we?

Lets keep it that way shall we?

Rifle grenades benefiting from infantry and crews frequently converging together into an amorphous blob had nothing to do with Maxim spam going dead, it was already fixed when the Maxim's horizontal traverse got nerfed. The former just made it near suicidal.