A letter to Relic COH2 Game balance team

Now I’m Ranked #1 Chinese in Coh2.

And you probably are thanks to using exploits like truck pushing, which is surely not intended and definitely not fun to play against. Thank god relic finally fixed this crap.

he just plays coh2 like it's starcraft

Well it surely works, look at this guy's stats.

I can't understand some of you guys. If game allows something then is legit untill it is changed. Truck pushing was legit, now it isn't anymore, as simple as that. Revert these changes? No, for sure, Relic won't bring this back.

Also blobbing: does the game allows you to do this and you are often rewarded for playing like this? Then blobs FTW untill Relic changes the meta. The chivalry is daed since Middle Age, every player does what he can in order to win. Some have better micro and skills and like to use combined arms. Others have not such good skills or are to lazy and prefer blobbing.
You will say PTRS blob it's also legit because game allows it, and of course it is, though it appeared due to a RELIC conception mistake, that we are trying to change right now. Like truck pushing in the past.

The only thing which is not okay is using cheats (like maphack) and that should be severly punished. Like ban on product key, that is what I would do. But that's another thing.

Acing most leaderboards, runners up in the recent tournament - "that doesn't have to mean that he is very good". And such bullcrap comments while hiding the own playercard
If it's so easy to "blob to the top" where's your top 10 playercard?

From how I see it, this is the truth. I wrote the facts. You can like it or it. There are so many examples I could give you but I don't think that would make any difference. And you know what, I played against him and he blobed like shit and above that he had an aditude. So sorry that I don't trust his point of view. I trust me eyes more than his playercard! I am not a sheep.

And a little help for you, watch some casts with him and look how he is playing and also what the casters say.

P.S. I play the game and my first goal is to have fun and then to win, so I dont blob at all. Not for fun and not to climb the ladders! Winning is not everything. And how can you take a guy seriously when he says the the truck pushing is strat. GTFO !!!

I'm going to have to change the bingo card up again because this is comedy gold right here. Comparing Slavery to a game mechanic, jfc dude.

See its called a comparison. I made it really obvious so people like you could get it. Looks like I was wrong to think you could though

See, what it means is there is something completely unfair, and obviously so yet there are idiots defending it to the last.

Here i'll try again:

Truck pushing is a free unit that was having a major impact on the game. It would be just as infuriating and comparable if base turrets could move and kill things.

Free unit impacting the game heavily

Free unit impacting the game heavily

Free unit impacting the game heavily

I dont know this isnt obvious

There is this thing called a mountain, its made of your stubborness. Do the right thing and get over it.

This goes double for you Aladin

3. New Bulletin: OBER’s upgrade cost 8% less munitions.

4. Volksgrenadiers Vet 3 set to Passive Healing, -15% received accuracy.

5. LE IG 18 Infantry Support Gun now has 6 man crew.

6. King Tiger Set it 400 front armor. (when u have KT soviet should have enough fuel call in 2 IS2) and the vet 3 'Spearhead' ability now adding -15% reload + 10% range. Please IS-2 vet 3 -30% reload, +20% rotation speed, +20% speed, +20% ac/de-celeration and KT got nothing???
Set KT Cost 700 MP and 250 FUEL.

7. IS2- and TIGER I‘s main gun damage set it to 180. Please they are heavy tanks. 88mm and 122mm mean something, they CAN DEAL more dmg than 75mm or 3 inch gun

8. M4A3E8 set it to Front armor 235 rear 105. 720 HP. Cost 460 MP and 155 fuel. Please give USF a tank that can deal with panther. More powerful but more expensive .

9. All sherman’s smoke screen should cost 40 munitions.

10. Fallschirmjäger Now cost 400 MP to call in. Airborne Assault now cost 200 munitions.


11. 2CP - Signal Relay cost 30 munitions. Emergency Repairs cost 30 munitions . Anti-Tank (HEAT) Shells cost 35 munitions. Panzer IV Ausf J now comes with armor skirt and it cost 680 MP and 190 fuel. (Elite Armour Doc is just useless now, have some buff won’t hurt and is good for sale).

12. Infiltration Tactics cost 20 munitions.

13. Flak Emplacements do not cost popcap.

14. Stormtroopers now cost 400 MP to call in and it have 5 man, 10 pop. MP44 and anti tank combat package can upgrade at the same time. 60 munitions for 3 X MP44. 60 munitions for at package. Break supply line can now destroy cache at once. Break through now cost 30 fuel. Close the pocket now cost 180 munitions.


15. G43 package upgrade for Ostheer GRENS need to be more expensive but more powerful, G43 can now upgrade with LMG42 but cost more. Total 120 muni. (45 for G43 than LMG cost 75 or 60 for LMG than 60 for G43).

16. Command PZ IV now need 7 CP to call in.

17. Command Panther need 9 CP to call in. Coordinated Fire now cost 55 munitions.

18. PTRS Accuracy set to 0.20 / 0.40 / 0.50 (Don’t u think PTRS SPAM is way too OP???)

19. Pioneers Sight set to 40.

20. USF M2 FLAMER now COST 70 munitions.

21. USF BAR now cost 50 munitions. Cost 150 MP 25 fuel to unlock.

22. USF Bazooka now cost 55 munitions.

23. GUARDS DP LMG now COST 60 munitions.

24. Sturm Offizier’s force retreat now cost 45 munitions. And it will not inspires nearby units

25. SU-76 Now cost 250 MP 50 FUEL ,POP 7. PEN now 125/110/100 Light Artillery Barrage CD 40 seconds.

26. Sdkfz 251 don’t need Battle phase 2 to unlock Flame projectors.

I agree with a bunch of these but I do have some issues or requests to be elaborated on.

13) The flack emplacement Needs to cost population. Otherwise late game when players start to float, there will be fields of emplacments participating in combat that while not free, give an unfair advantage (Imagine the extreme case, each player is maxed out and there are like 5 flack emplacements out, there is no allies equivalent and there are 5 extra buildings that they need to overcome)

26) the flame truck I think has two bad consequences. Lately I have put thought into the battle phase upgrade requirement and I came up with: the early case where the truck comes out before or during the lieutenant. There is a 2 minute where the flack truck can literally kill your USF opponent. The other bad scenario is it comes out too late where there are too many counters. In on situation the USF player dies and the other the flame track is still never used. I'm not sure how to fix this unit, but I do believe removing its requirement would not do anything good.

7) I'm not sure I want to see heavy tanks dominating more with dealing better damage to be honest

I hope 25 fuel for bar unlock was joke.

I think that focusing on issues of balance is an error.

There are serious problems more important than balance:

- Maps balance / positions.

- Bugs. (Now more than ever in my case)

- Optimization.


Anyway, Congratulate Paul about the letter. More than 4000 views and 170 replies on this thread.

I think that focusing on issues of balance is an error.

There are serious problems more important than balance:

- Maps balance / positions.

- Bugs. (Now more than ever in my case)

- Optimization.


Anyway, Congratulate Paul about the letter. More than 4000 views and 170 replies on this thread.

Jesulin speaks little but always wisdom

I lol'd. Better fix bug with tank passing by other tanks. Still that stuff is here... after 3 or 4 years?

I think that focusing on issues of balance is an error.

There are serious problems more important than balance:

- Maps balance / positions.

- Bugs. (Now more than ever in my case)

- Optimization.


Anyway, Congratulate Paul about the letter. More than 4000 views and 170 replies on this thread.

+ 1

See, him I can take seriously. Because he talks like he plays the game. Correctly!!!

Truck pushing was just incredibly annoying. Whether it balances okw early is a separate issue. Its not fun, it looks ridiculous and its obviously not intended.

Don't be so obviously jealous of him! that's actually very cool.

You should get off your knees already.

It is sad to see a top player complain about Truck push nerf. I think we all agreed this was a cheap way of negating early game fun with cheap tricks. OKW and Axis in general has to micro early game and be super careful and survive until mid game. We all know by design, Axis has to try much harder early game while Allies have late game problems.

Don't even say OKW has limited options in early game, USF is hampered by the same problem. OKW can start with 2 Sturm and kubel or Sturm + Volks or Sturm, Volks, Kubel. USF only has Rifles and RE.

ostheer panzergrenadiers should get one extra model at vet 2 maybe.
i think that they should make veterancy more rewarding and maybe make all factions have 5 different levels of veterancy .
all tanks should get their rear armor nerfed, thereby rewarding flanking even more.
add a blobbing modifier that will increase received damage to grouped infantry and make them move slower,this modifier intensifies in value with each new squad added.
try and make a place for all units that are available (brumbarr,su76 for example are rarely used if ever).

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This. TL,DR version:
-Does the game allow me to do something(from cheesy tactics to placing tank traps behind tanks)?Yes.
-Can I exploit it? Yes.
-Can you exploit it? Yes.
-Is it fair? No.
So what should I do? Instead of calling high rank players (or any other player who might exploit balance issues and win) noobs, ask developers to fix them (but don't hold your breath) and do the exact same thing they do in the meantime.

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True. Most maps have balance issues and favor either allies or axis, and instead of actually fixing it, Relic decided to randomize starting position. And I don't know why they keep asking for community ideas to balance the map, but never perform the changes in the game. Well, what can you expect when they add sittard to automatch pool. A map which it's designer said that has balance issues.

On the other hand, bugs. Oh bugs... Units can not enter buildings, MGs get drunk as they garrison a house, mines not working, infantry getting stuck, Pathing, crushing, phasing, Wolf's lair... The list goes on and on.The thing is, these bugs are "Game Breaking" and change the course of the game.


On an unrelated note,
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Things that I agree with:
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Things that I strongly disagree with:
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I don't even know I'm writing this WoT here. I think I've got Stockholm syndrome. Oh Relic...

oaul ur a beast and I like watching u but these changes really don't need to happen, this game is the most balanced its ever been right now. I think the truck is fine ptrs need to cost 60 for cons and everything else is fine. all this game needs now is content. no more changes

except melee came out at a time when you couldn't update console games. If he could patch melee at the time Sakurai would have got rid of a lot of stuff in the game he didn't like such as wave dashing.

Melee is a good game but the pedestal people but the game on is ridiculous, there are so many other good fighters current, contemporary and past that it is quite disingenuous to claim that melee is best game ever when people are still finding new tech for super turbo for example.

Truck pushing was lame, free unit with loads of HP and no risks if you lose it. It was not conductive to healthy game play.

Wavedashing was actually intended. Certainly not in the way most people think of it, as in intended before its creation, but Sakurai said in an interview 'of course we noticed it during development', at which point he decided it wouldn't hurt the game if he kept it in, therefore he intended its continued existence, thus intending it. Oh, and, there were patches. 1.00 is different than 1.01, 1.02, and PAL. Sakurai also later acknowledged that it was the most polished of the Smash games, but he also said it was 'too hard' at an even later date.

Further, don't forget the law of subjective valuation. The fact that the FGC respect it now, the fact that it has such large tournaments and such a large playerbase after nearly 15 years, and the mere fact it has such mechanical depth, all lends to the 'one of the greatest games ever' statement. I didn't say best ever, just one of the greatest. I, for example, love Third Strike, and see it as a peer among the greats such as Brood War, Counter Strike Source, just like Melee. I understand if you don't think its pedestal is deserved, but you must grant that there are many who do.

Actually, we just found new info in Melee too, and I certainly don't mean to discredit Super Turbo by this, as I know fairly little about that game. Certain grab release combos work depending on port priority, so the port priority metagame has shifted considerably, since it used to be 'higher priority = better', but now certain bread and butters don't work at certain percents, and do for the other ports. Platform dropping via shield input is also another relatively recent tech to be used to any degree of certainty, and the thorough application of Yoshi parrying was fairly recent as well.

As for truck pushing, I said nothing about it, I was merely pointing out one of the many flawed arguments against it with a little help from an analogy to another game where the developer didn't intend all the myriad necessary results of a game's mechanics, and who later decided he didn't like them, to show how absurd developer worship is, that anything going against their intention being evil is a severely flawed argument.

the PTRS dps chat shown on stats-coh have been adjusted for size 20 units,

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1LOYMDi_XR7rILsk6HbAZqGihsk22t-45C_6NbQEP-m0/edit#gid=0

at range 30:

dp28:6.442 x2
guard mosin:1.72 x2
PTRS:3.444 x2

total:23.212

ober kar:4.289 x3
lmg34:14.582

total: 27.449

come watch guards ober

http://www.coh2.org/replay/33279/guards-ptrs-meta

he just plays coh2 like it's starcraft, he has timings, buildorders, macro, and direction, and he knows the unit matchups extremely well... but he also blobs like a motherfucker, like how it's done in SC2, if it works... why stop?

There is a lot of FAN BOY here. uknow.

They fight for honor.

The fact that Obers got nerfed this hard makes no sense. They are suposed to be elite troops with good combat experience exceling at long range. Therefore the big MP cost and low squad size and 50 reinforce cost. Why the hell would you give your best troops a standard rifle that is issued to every footsoldier. One Mg-34 made them good in what they were suposed to be or IR Stg-44s served the same purpose one or two lead men with main weapon/s providing firepower and two/three with rifles covering them providing percision fire. Now you basicaly buy two times more expensive gren squad. Nerf on Stg-44 ir and Mg-34 DPS was fine but making Mg-34 munition upgrade demotes them to basic footsoldiers that get easily wiped and don't bring much in terms of AI and nobody is gonna buy Stg-44s IR anymore.

The fact that Obers got nerfed this hard makes no sense. They are suposed to be elite troops with good combat experience exceling at long range. Therefore the big MP cost and low squad size and 50 reinforce cost. Why the hell would you give your best troops a standard rifle that is issued to every footsoldier. One Mg-34 made them good in what they were suposed to be or IR Stg-44s served the same purpose one or two lead men with main weapon/s providing firepower and two/three with rifles covering them providing percision fire. Now you basicaly buy two times more expensive gren squad. Nerf on Stg-44 ir and Mg-34 DPS was fine but making Mg-34 munition upgrade demotes them to basic footsoldiers that get easily wiped and don't bring much in terms of AI.

Still worried about Obers, which still retain the best AI of any infantry? Seriously though if you don't understand why Obers were nerfed look at the patch notes or read the huge long discussion about them on this forum.

They got a much needed nerf so I no longer have to fight vs space marines and plasma armor for 0 cost.