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Over nerfed Obers

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2 Apr 2015, 15:42 PM
#181
avatar of Jaigen

Posts: 1130

So use doctrinal infantry instead.
OKW doesn't lack that.
Soviets rely in it since day 1.

Obers are still potent, you might see that if you play the game(as up until now no evidence of it exist) instead of just forum warrioring with johnnyb.


I dont question their potency but their cost efficiency . Your correct on the callin infantry but the okw isn't the soviets
2 Apr 2015, 15:43 PM
#182
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8

Their cost efficiency with LMG is comparable to M1919 paras, rec acc modifier and vet ensures complete negation of 4v6 squad members difference.
Your point is...?
2 Apr 2015, 15:44 PM
#183
avatar of Jaigen

Posts: 1130

Their cost efficiency with LMG is comparable to M1919 paras, rec acc modifier and vet ensures complete negation of 4v6 squad members difference.
Your point is...?


you are wrong
2 Apr 2015, 15:45 PM
#184
avatar of Gdot

Posts: 1166 | Subs: 1

Their cost efficiency is comparable to M1919 paras, rec acc modifier and vet ensures complete negation of 4v6 squad members.
Your point is...?


360mp for them seems appropriate to me. At 400mp + techs + muni + build time = might as well build fusiliers.
2 Apr 2015, 15:47 PM
#185
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post2 Apr 2015, 15:44 PMJaigen


you are wrong

Stop bitching and play the game instead of whining on forums all the time and you'll see for yourself.
2 Apr 2015, 15:56 PM
#186
avatar of Alexzandvar

Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1

If you have played the game lately the increased Fuss spam is probably symptomatic of people figuring out that 6 men hard to wipe squads > 4 men easy to wipe squads.

Obers are weak to indirect fire and massed infantry, before they were weak to indirect fire and massed infantry. Not really much has changed here.
2 Apr 2015, 16:55 PM
#187
avatar of OZtheWiZARD

Posts: 1439

Also they still provide quite a punch.

I understand however that a lot of OKW players are used to use them like terminators and it will take some time to adjust and discover their true potential.
2 Apr 2015, 17:19 PM
#188
avatar of Alexzandvar

Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1

Also they still provide quite a punch.

I understand however that a lot of OKW players are used to use them like terminators and it will take some time to adjust and discover their true potential.


Well, they exist to fight things like Shocks and Para's or stop rifleblobs. They don't really have any utility like the call in infantry do. As far as most units go they are extremely straight forward.
2 Apr 2015, 17:28 PM
#189
avatar of The Silver Sage

Posts: 183


Stop bitching and play the game instead of whining on forums all the time and you'll see for yourself.


Kati you're wasting your time he'll never see sense, 0.7 vet 0 incoming accuracy is a huge bonus for Obers and they never acknowledge it. Against small arms fire it makes them have the equivalent of 5.7 men, all you'll hear them give out about then is the squad wipe potential (which is symptomatic of unit clumping, how many times has it happened to maxim being wiped or left with 1 man from a gren nade?).

They just don't want to acknowledge the fact that obers were too good before patch and have since been balanced. I love how they claim well now you are going to see more doctrinal infantry call ins. Well good that means people are not just no brain building obers because they are head and shoulders above any other unit. Now other units can actually compete!

Pre-patch obers were a drug that needs to be cleared from the system so people can see sense.
2 Apr 2015, 17:29 PM
#190
avatar of LemonJuice

Posts: 1144 | Subs: 7



Well, they exist to fight things like Shocks and Para's or stop rifleblobs. They don't really have any utility like the call in infantry do. As far as most units go they are extremely straight forward.


Are paras and shocks that much different? They have very little utility as well.all 3 have grenades, 2 have smoke, 1 had a booby trap, and amother had a timed demo
2 Apr 2015, 17:35 PM
#191
avatar of Alexzandvar

Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1



Are paras and shocks that much different? They have very little utility as well.all 3 have grenades, 2 have smoke, 1 had a booby trap, and amother had a timed demo


I was talking specifically about the OKW call in infantry like Fallsch, JLI, and Fuss. Fuss have flares and a snare, JLI also has booby trap but can come out of buildings with sprint and gets infiltration nades which are deadly when combined especially when paired with the vet 1 cloak. Fallsch have the best snare in the game as well as smoke and coming out from buildings.

This isn't a claim that Obers are bad, they are still great, but they are great at 1 specific thing like shocks; kill enemy infantry very fast while being durable. Specialization is good, and I wish we had more of it instead of these hordes of generalist units.
2 Apr 2015, 17:41 PM
#192
avatar of Tatatala

Posts: 589

Nothing ever stopped anybody from using the specialist inf and Obers combined.
2 Apr 2015, 17:54 PM
#193
avatar of SwonVIP
Donator 11

Posts: 640

I think Obersoldaten are fine... But 400MP for Obersoldaten with K98k? They should decrease the MP at least the refresh costs.

... they should nerf the Soviet "Stoßtruppen" - they are just ridiculous
2 Apr 2015, 18:00 PM
#194
avatar of JohnnyB

Posts: 2396 | Subs: 1

I think Obersoldaten are fine... But 400MP for Obersoldaten with K98k? They should decrease the MP or at least the reinforcement costs.


There you are. You're welcome. And yes, you are right.
2 Apr 2015, 18:04 PM
#195
avatar of ElSlayer

Posts: 1605 | Subs: 1


This. I think many people simply confused the highly annoying nature of OKW play with its blobs and lack of combined arms with actual strength, and many hyperventilated over the seemingly obscene statline of units like the KT, whereas in 1v1 you would rarely if ever actually have to face one unless you got severely outplayed in the first place. Even in the previous patch, when playing Soviets, OH was usually more of a problem as long as the tech decisions were correct, that is.
As for Obers, I'll reserve judgment for now, it remains to be seen how this plays out, but I think they should have received maybe an increase in reinforcement speed in exchange. Looking at their baseline stats, they are now a glorified Gren squad, albeit still profiting from insanely strong vet bonuses. Well at least thats in line with the OKW theme, ie. weak vanilla, disprortionally strong vetted.


Schrek/volks nerfed, raketen buffed => closer to combined arms approach
KT was rarely used in 1v1 + KT nerfed => better balance in 3v3/4v4 games
Obers weaker at vet 0, still execptionally strong at high vet => less brainless useage, rewards unit preservation and playing from faction strengths

Great patch for OKW players as it makes playing OKW less boring.
2 Apr 2015, 20:10 PM
#196
avatar of Alexzandvar

Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1

Nothing ever stopped anybody from using the specialist inf and Obers combined.


Cost mainly is what stopped that. The OKW call in infantry are all supposed to come in before Obers so generally if you have a large number of infantry already by the time the Schwer is deployed you don't "need" Obers. Or multiple Obers for that matter.

This is especially true with Fallsch, who are quite expensive.

Schrek/volks nerfed, raketen buffed => closer to combined arms approach


No? The nerfs were not nearly significant enough to deter people from getting lots of Volks, and nothing ever will because they are you baseline infantry. They are analogous to riflemen.

KT was rarely used in 1v1 + KT nerfed => better balance in 3v3/4v4 games


So should rarely used units in 1's but excellent in 4's be nerfed? Because the Katyusha is absurdly common in team games but not as much in 1's.

Obers weaker at vet 0, still execptionally strong at high vet => less brainless useage, rewards unit preservation and playing from faction strengths


They aren't weaker at Vet 0, they literally changed nothing about the unit besides the LMG34 doing 25% less damage and being gated. Obers are still ~terminators~.

God the amount of jumping to conclusions here is massive.
2 Apr 2015, 20:51 PM
#197
avatar of Tatatala

Posts: 589



Cost mainly is what stopped that. The OKW call in infantry are all supposed to come in before Obers so generally if you have a large number of infantry already by the time the Schwer is deployed you don't "need" Obers. Or multiple Obers for that matter.

This is especially true with Fallsch, who are quite expensive.


Last time I looked, OKW has exactly the same manpower as any other faction.
2 Apr 2015, 21:51 PM
#198
avatar of Vuther
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 3103 | Subs: 1



Last time I looked, OKW has exactly the same manpower as any other faction.

I would have assumed that too before noticing when I play USF, I never feel so manpower-starved when I'm fucking winning.

Well, kinda like Wehrmacht, but that one's obvious in that it's the teching and building costs.
2 Apr 2015, 21:53 PM
#199
avatar of Alexzandvar

Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1



Last time I looked, OKW has exactly the same manpower as any other faction.


Yes it does, and Obers are 400 MP and take up 10 popcap, if you already have a sufficient amount of infantry because you were calling infantry in before you got the ability to make Obers then normally you wouldn't want to waste the MP on them.

This change has just encouraged people to explore other strategies, but Obers are still about as good as they always were even with the 25% nerf.
3 Apr 2015, 02:21 AM
#200
avatar of Nuclear Arbitor
Patrion 28

Posts: 2470

jump backJump back to quoted post2 Apr 2015, 21:51 PMVuther

I would have assumed that too before noticing when I play USF, I never feel so manpower-starved when I'm fucking winning.

Well, kinda like Wehrmacht, but that one's obvious in that it's the teching and building costs.


that's because EVERYTHING for USF (bar RETs) costs at least 250 mp. and 250 is the ambulence. infantry (again, bar RETs) are at least 280.
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