Relic: No Japanese faction in CoH2

Jump back to quoted post31 Mar 2015, 11:26 AMCarronade

'Jude/Jew' is just a term for a person of a certain religion, like "Christian".

Jump back to quoted post1 Apr 2015, 07:39 AMCabreza

It's pretty fascinating to see how split the community is about this issue.

It isn't so much the word that is the issue but instead the history and imagery that word conjures up. The United States waged massive and extremely effective propaganda war aimed at dehumanizing the Japanese during WWII and in all those posters, movie reels, etc. the Japanese were referred to as either "Japs" or "Nips". The propaganda was so enduring that those originally neutral words became permanently associated with the derogatory and dehumanizing imagery of that era in countries that fought in the Pacific War.

When you say "Jap" a person whose country was not exposed to that propaganda they might picture something like this:



But when you say "Jap" to an American you are conjuring up images and negativity like this:



While "Jap" may have been a neutral term at first it became a derogatory slur in the US and other countries that fought in the Pacific largely due to it's association with the dehumanizing propaganda of the era. A person not exposed to that shared cultural history would have a very different understanding of the word than one who was.

Jump back to quoted post30 Mar 2015, 18:05 PMMajorBloodnok

Thank you

I am not Australian.

EDIT: Why would "Jap" be a racial slur in Australia?

Jump back to quoted post1 Apr 2015, 12:47 PMSturmführer Stalin

Speaking for that time this is not true! Many of the so called jews werent religious. At least not the "jewish way". They were just relatives and were killed because the great great grandfather had 1 of 5 children with a jewish woman.(exagerated but I think you get my point)

Yes its true its not an abbreviation but thats not the point. The point is that some use it as slur others consider it a normal word for a certain person. Like jap.

Jump back to quoted post30 Mar 2015, 23:25 PMSturmführer Stalin

The japs wouldnt be a good addition to the coh2 for several reasons: they were completly different from the four other factions (few combined arms, heavy usage of ambush taktiks, suicide attack, etc). The military focus was more on navy battles than on big armoured vehicle assaults(although I want to see the yamato cruisin around in the volga ). They were experts in jungle skirmisches, camoflaging in bushes or surprise attacks, but they would lack in tanks for european battlefields. I can imagine them being an excellent and fun-to-play-faction that I'd actually love to see in action but they dont fit into coh2.maybe in a fourth coh or a seperate multiplayer.

I dont think jap is racist. Some people might think its racist because its a bit sloppy probably overused. Its like "jude"(jew) in germany, many people think its racist but it actually depends on the context, could be said in a humiliating way or in a friendly/funny/normal/shortend/whatever way, the situation makes it racist.

Jump back to quoted post3 Apr 2015, 08:36 AMMr. Someguy

Nah, you just need a lot of historical fiction to make them work.

Jump back to quoted post3 Apr 2015, 12:05 PMShang

Do you mean like American fighting at Moscow or Russians in France?

Jump back to quoted post3 Apr 2015, 19:51 PMMr. Someguy

No I'm talking about units and design, not maps. I mean like Maus vs IS-3, or Panther II vs T-44, or maybe even E-25 vs T-55, that kind of fiction. Because Japans best Medium Tank was intended to counter the 75mm M4A3 Sherman, and it wasn't even superior to it. You'd need a lot of conjecture in order to make them competitive with the likes of the Soviet Army with their T-34/85's and IS-2's, or USF with their M4A3E8's.

Jump back to quoted post4 Apr 2015, 23:17 PMShang

Implying that current unit designs are realistic and not fictional?

Jump back to quoted post4 Apr 2015, 23:29 PMMr. Someguy

That's a fallacy, you could use that logic to argue for the inclusion of anything. For example, CoH2 isn't realistic, and Space Marines aren't realistic, so lets add Space Marines. Of course that doesn't make Space Marines any more fitting in CoH2's atmosphere or gameplay.

Jump back to quoted post4 Apr 2015, 23:33 PMOmega_Warrior

Space marines didn't participate in WW2. Japan did.

Jump back to quoted post4 Apr 2015, 23:48 PMMr. Someguy

But not in the way people want them implemented. Japan was primarily a Naval and Air power. As far as armoured warfare, which Company of Heroes focuses on heavily, they would be worthless. Light Tanks were the mainstay of their armoured forces. Their land-based combat was based around extreme defense utilizing trenches, tunnels, bunkers, landmines, and boobytraps all set up before the enemy's arrival. That assumes they'd have half the map before you exit your base, or they'd be able to construct it rapidly with any infantry unit. That's not fun to play against, and coupled with the offensive capability of Wehrmacht or OKW would be wildly overpowered. Yet in a more conventional design, they struggle against even basic medium tanks, let alone upper-tier tanks like the Easy Eight or T-34/85. And fighting the IS-2 would be like trying to kill a Tiger with T-70's.

In short, you'd have to heavily fictionalise aspects of the Japanese Army in order to make them fun and effective against the current Allied armies.

Jump back to quoted post5 Apr 2015, 00:09 AMShang

I'm sorry but you're just wrong. Armored forces was virtually non-existent in IJA, what armor they had was used as infantry support, their land based combat was based around en massed infantry shock attacks grinding into attrition warfare if swift victory wasn't achieved. Their extreme defense as you suggested was a product of late war ad-hoc desperation initative rather than a regular military doctrine.

You have funny double standarts complaining about issue of realism in regard of building defenses when Germans players can build bunkers or Pak 43s in 10 seconds. Same with your complaint about realism of tanks, when US factions has no heavy tanks, and allies need to call in even the most commonly produced Shermans/T34s.

Jump back to quoted post5 Apr 2015, 00:34 AMMr. Someguy

You're really not helping your own argument by admitting the IJA was hugely inept when it came to armoured combat. And Ostheer have a buildable bunker, as do US Forces, but their entire faction designs aren't dependent on building fortresses. And yes the US Forces have no Heavy Tank, but they have decent Medium Tanks and Tank Destroyers. A Japanese Faction would be lacking both of these things. The British in CoH1 were a defensive faction, and everybody hated that. Remove the tanks (except Stuart and Tetrarch) and slap a Japanese flag on it though and suddenly it's in high demand? I don't understand the appeal.