I think Wehrmacht should have the Stug IV instead of the Stug III as their tier 3 unit. The Stug IV was the most produced tank destroyer by the Germans in WW2 and yet CoH2 still doesn't have it in game which i think is silly. Who thinks this would fit nicely into the game? The tank would function more the the stugIV in CoH 1 with an emphasis on anti tank and less on anti infantry. It would have slightly more armor and penetration due to the bigger gun but still very fragile when flanked. I think it would be a half decent counter to the Jackson which currently shuts down all Ostheer t3.
Anouther option is to have the upgunned TD in t4 but i think it would be better in t3.
What do you guys think?
Stug IV
21 Mar 2015, 20:42 PM
#1
21 Mar 2015, 20:53 PM
#2
Posts: 300
Stug III was the most produced Tank destroyer build by Nazi Germany......
on topic: I voted no reason? not the way to fix the current situation with the Stug III and OST T3 as a whole. Wish I had a suggestion, but I just dont ATM
on topic: I voted no reason? not the way to fix the current situation with the Stug III and OST T3 as a whole. Wish I had a suggestion, but I just dont ATM
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21 Mar 2015, 20:57 PM
#3
Posts: 521
It's completely unnecessary because Panther takes that role. If you need a dedicated tank destroyer, there is Elefant. Ostheer has more AT options than anyone.
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21 Mar 2015, 21:02 PM
#4
Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1
Makes more sense to give Ostheer the Jadgpanther honestly.
21 Mar 2015, 21:03 PM
#5
Posts: 1705
I want stug 3 to be more defined in its role.What it needs is 60 range and excellent penetration,but poor dmg 100 or 120 and weak health and cheap price.So it'll be a harassing unit useful in numbers right till endgame due to range,penetration and TWP vet..but its dmg will be unimpressive alone and it can't go tow to tow with any mediums due to health.
But use din numbers and with micro it will be rewarding to use and get better with vet.
Anti-inf capability is not needed.
But use din numbers and with micro it will be rewarding to use and get better with vet.
Anti-inf capability is not needed.
21 Mar 2015, 21:04 PM
#6
3 
Posts: 658
The StuGIV is using the very same gun as the StuGIII.
Armor is also pretty much the same.
There's no point in adding this tank. It would be easier to simply buff the current StuG but I don't think it is necessary.
It's the M-36 (Jackson) that should be changed.
A pen buff to 240 at max range and a DMG nerf to 160 will make it less effective vs mediums but more reliable vs heavies.
Armor is also pretty much the same.
There's no point in adding this tank. It would be easier to simply buff the current StuG but I don't think it is necessary.
It's the M-36 (Jackson) that should be changed.
A pen buff to 240 at max range and a DMG nerf to 160 will make it less effective vs mediums but more reliable vs heavies.
21 Mar 2015, 21:10 PM
#7
Posts: 3103 | Subs: 1
We probably could just make the StuG III G fit the concept you speak of like a lot of people would like it to be instead how it is now. 
Didn't a lot of StuG III Gs use the exact same StuK 40 L/48 main gun as the StuG IV anyway?
Didn't a lot of StuG III Gs use the exact same StuK 40 L/48 main gun as the StuG IV anyway?
21 Mar 2015, 21:12 PM
#8
Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1
The StuGIV is using the very same gun as the StuGIII.
Armor is also pretty much the same.
There's no point in adding this tank. It would be easier to simply buff the current StuG but I don't think it is necessary.
It's the M-36 (Jackson) that should be changed.
A pen buff to 240 at max range and a DMG nerf to 160 will make it less effective vs mediums but more reliable vs heavies.
The Jackson would need a price increase then, 240 pen at max range + it's great mobility would make it out class every medium TD in the game in every way except armor.
For instance, 240 at max range is almost 100 more than the JPIV at max range and the SU-85 at max range.
21 Mar 2015, 21:19 PM
#9
Posts: 1604 | Subs: 3
240 dmg 60 range Jagdpanther in T4 when?
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21 Mar 2015, 21:20 PM
#10
1 Posts: 1021 | Subs: 1
The Jackson would need a price increase then, 240 pen at max range + it's great mobility would make it out class every medium TD in the game in every way except armor.
For instance, 240 at max range is almost 100 more than the JPIV at max range and the SU-85 at max range.
the nerf to his damage would be absolutlety enough, imo toning him down to 200 damage would be enough of a compensation. the jackson is supposed to be a glasscannon, nerfing his damage more would make him unplayable, you would need to have godlike micro and still do no damage
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21 Mar 2015, 21:23 PM
#11
Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1
the nerf to his damage would be absolutlety enough, imo toning him down to 200 damage would be enough of a compensation. the jackson is supposed to be a glasscannon, nerfing his damage more would make him unplayable, you would need to have godlike micro and still do no damage
To put things in perspective, the only tanks in the game with more than 240 pen at max range are the Jadgtiger and Elefant.
At 240 pen at max range the Jackson would have the best long range penetration of any non-doc tank in the game, as well as all doctrine tanks in the game except for the two previously mentioned.
21 Mar 2015, 21:29 PM
#12
1 Posts: 1021 | Subs: 1
To put things in perspective, the only tanks in the game with more than 240 pen at max range are the Jadgtiger and Elefant.
At 240 pen at max range the Jackson would have the best long range penetration of any non-doc tank in the game, as well as all doctrine tanks in the game except for the two previously mentioned.
so he would be able to penetrate pretty much every axis tank pretty much every time. i see nothing wrong with that, he would not be as effective against mediums, because of the damage nerf, but he would be a heavytank counter. Still he would need a lot of micro and he would be counterable. That would be perfect! what do you dislike about that?
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21 Mar 2015, 21:36 PM
#13
Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1
so he would be able to penetrate pretty much every axis tank pretty much every time. i see nothing wrong with that, he would not be as effective against mediums, because of the damage nerf, but he would be a heavytank counter. Still he would need a lot of micro and he would be counterable. That would be perfect! what do you dislike about that?
Uh, the Jacksons mobility means it requires less micro, not more. It can easily escape a sticky situation in a way the SU-85 and JPIV cannot.
Making the Jackson literally the most cost efficient best tank killer in the game that also comes in roughly the same time Ostheer first gets T3 would make Axis medium armor more rare, not less. It would also turn the Tiger into a joke, since the Tiger would be helpless if it's armor was getting penned every time by a tank it couldn't even touch.
What makes the Jackson ~okay~ versus heavy armor is the trade off of damage versus pen, meaning that when you pen you fuck a tank up hard, making it's damage reduced but giving it garenteed penetration would mean there is literally no trade off.
21 Mar 2015, 21:42 PM
#14
1 
Posts: 172
Don't touch my StuG III
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21 Mar 2015, 21:48 PM
#15
Posts: 2053
21 Mar 2015, 21:54 PM
#17
Posts: 1225
Technically speaking, the StuG III/IV were both assault guns, nomen est omen, and not Panzerjäger (TDs), and yes, their guns were identical.
Ingame, the current iteration of the StuG universally sucks with both lousy AT and AI, even the SU-76 has prolly more utility owing to its free barrage. Converting it into a dedicated tank destroyer along the lines of the Su85 might indeed be a good idea, and would go a long way into making OH t3 builds (and OH in general) viable again.
Ingame, the current iteration of the StuG universally sucks with both lousy AT and AI, even the SU-76 has prolly more utility owing to its free barrage. Converting it into a dedicated tank destroyer along the lines of the Su85 might indeed be a good idea, and would go a long way into making OH t3 builds (and OH in general) viable again.
21 Mar 2015, 21:55 PM
#18
Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1
God help USF tanks requiring any less micro than they have already. Spinning in circles, having low health, zero armor, and big hitboxes is USF's special way of deflecting projectiles.
Less damage = medium tanks countered more? Logic does not fit out that window.
-Complains that Axis have too few medium tanks
-Complains that most fragile TD will somehow be more effective at killing medium tanks with 160 damage instead of 240.
I meant to say Heavy's instead of Mediums, but the Jackson requires far less micro due to the fact that I can easily moon walk out of a situation while also having a turrent to keep the damage up instead of with a JPIV which doesn't even have a traversable gun, or the SU-85 which can only traverse a small amount.
A medium TD with absolute garenteed penetration versus every medium while having over a 70% chance to penetrate a Tiger while also having far more mobility than said Tiger while also costing less and having better range is a tad bit broken.
The Jackson needs reduced damage and a better ROF, meaning it does more DPS than it did before while just having less Alpha damage.
It costs less than the SU-85 because of how cheap USF's teching is, and only has 20 less pen.
21 Mar 2015, 22:06 PM
#19
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
Uh, the Jacksons mobility means it requires less micro, not more. It can easily escape a sticky situation in a way the SU-85 and JPIV cannot.
Define 'sticky situation'.
Encountering single shreck volk?
In every single other case, its fucked because of its hp and its not as mobile as you claim it to be.
Making the Jackson literally the most cost efficient best tank killer in the game that also comes in roughly the same time Ostheer first gets T3 would make Axis medium armor more rare, not less. It would also turn the Tiger into a joke, since the Tiger would be helpless if it's armor was getting penned every time by a tank it couldn't even touch.
God forbid the one army with NO heavy tanks, NO super heavy assault gun or tank destroyer, NO effective AT gun or handheld AT, NO heavy at gun, NO mines of basic engineer troop and least reliable vehicle snare which also requires vet would have a vehicle that allows them to fight all the heavy armor that is being thrown at them.
No, that would be total imbalance.
What makes the Jackson ~okay~ versus heavy armor is the trade off of damage versus pen, meaning that when you pen you fuck a tank up hard, making it's damage reduced but giving it garenteed penetration would mean there is literally no trade off.
Except low durability, armor unable to deflect anything, nothing that increases its sight, nothing that would be able to create buffer zone between it and its target, allowing army for its protection.
You see unit, but are completely blind to the army.
There is a reason why every single USF player who expects late game goes for airborne-P-47 is not an option, its something completely mandatory in dealing with heavy tanks of axis.
While 240 long range pen would be an overkill, it does need penetration buff.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
21 Mar 2015, 22:13 PM
#20
Posts: 2053
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