How to prevent blobs
3 Mar 2015, 13:34 PM
#41
Posts: 1042
Not in team games it isn't.
3 Mar 2015, 13:35 PM
#42
Posts: 431 | Subs: 1
Never said my stats were in anyway better mate, it was just your insinuation that I was some noob who didn't play the game I was trying to point out was false.
"image of blobbing"? What else am I meant to call it then?
This set of 4-5 units coming toward me shooting off shreks at everything isn't a blob at all. of course not!
Dude, you can't deny that large stacks of units being controlled as one body goes against the vision of the game as this tactical RTS.
Mate you missing all my points now. I explained everything before. In the end you will not stop player from blobing, everyone blob in rts games sc2, coh series and other games...
It's meta so deal with it.
3 Mar 2015, 13:38 PM
#43
Posts: 431 | Subs: 1
@Vipuks nobody cares about the stats, blobbing should be punished regardless of the rank, faction or Player experience.
P.S. more hours doesn't mean better gameplay. You can also have 5k hours, 2500 in menu and 2500 vs. easy bots.
If guy got 1 h of gameplay and another 200 h I beleve stats do care. You can't punish blobs unless you use your brains and fight for it. Even moder like agamex made system where he could punish my blobing but in the end I easily cracked his system (took 1 sec) and got same results.
3 Mar 2015, 13:40 PM
#44
Posts: 680
In the end you will not stop player from blobing, everyone blob in rts games sc2 coh serious and other games...
It's meta so deal with it.
I think you have missed the point of the thread again.
Op suggests something. Dont let it frighten you, as its only theory, you can continue to obey the meta in gameplay.
3 Mar 2015, 13:41 PM
#45
Posts: 1042
Mate you missing all my points now. I explained everything before. In the end you will not stop player from blobing, everyone blob in rts games sc2 coh serious and other games...
It's meta so deal with it.
Umm... yes you can stop them from blobbing, if you make it as undesirable as possible.
No, nobody can stop people from blobbing, but the disadvantages are such that if you do blob and the opponent has a clue, then they won't do it again in a hurry.
And in other RTS games, people don't blob. Wargame is a perfect example where if your units are blobbed up, the morale effect of artillery, aircraft etc makes them almost entirely combat ineffective and easy picking for an enemy. Thus you are rewarded for spreading out your units more than just rushing everything toward the enemy as fast as possible.
CoH2 doesn't have a morale system (a conventional one I mean, suppression kinda is one), so other ways need to be thought up.
My suggestions would be to make their received accuracy higher and a received damage increase when a certain amount of squads are too close to each other, say 3.
The options are there. The meta exists to be changed.
3 Mar 2015, 13:42 PM
#46
Posts: 1042
I think you have missed the point of the thread again.
I think someone might be afraid of his stats going down the drain if this were to be implemented... (which of course it won't, we can, after all, rely on Relic.
)
3 Mar 2015, 13:43 PM
#47
Posts: 1702
watch out, you've questioned his stats... now we're really in for it...
(though admittedly, you can't argue stats with a guy who is top 20-50 in everything)
@ Burts
Sorry, I don't accept that. Blobbing detracts with almost every mechanic in the game. We might as well play starcraft.
No it doesn't use AOE blob punishers and blobers get destroyed. OKW blobs are a bit rampart yes, but that's a problem with OKW suffering too little manpower bleed rather than anything else.
3 Mar 2015, 13:49 PM
#48
1 
Posts: 72
OKW suffering too little manpower bleed rather than anything else.
Objection! OKW simply has no vehicles to spend their MP on due to the arbitrary resource starving shit and not due to their units being too cheap to reinforce.
because USF nades are completely horrible and can easily be dodged by pretty much anyone.lol
3 Mar 2015, 13:53 PM
#49
Posts: 34
I think i Need to say that again: This thread is not only about OKW or SU, It's about ALL factions.
So please no whinning fanboys.
So please no whinning fanboys.
3 Mar 2015, 13:56 PM
#50
Posts: 1702
Objection! OKW simply has no vehicles to spend their MP on due to the arbitrary resource starving shit and not due to their units being too cheap to reinforce.
Sorry, but at top level in 1v1 this is not the case. OKW can easily afford vehicles and assuming equal map control, they can get a jagpanzer out at the same time a sherman comes out.. Granted, OKW usually is behind in map control, but even then they can get very good light vehicles such as the walking stuka and puma at 8 minutes or even earlier, while the flak HT usually arrives at 5-6.
Luchs typically arrives at 11-12 minutes assuming okay map control. Only if you stall for a panther, you float alot of MP. However OKW can still get a panther earlier than ostheer.
Check out how OKW top 2 Paul AD plays... No other faction can be blobbed so easily and so effectivelly... And this is at a top level, not some random scrub game... That said, Paul is a very good player, and he can play very well without blobbing too, so im not bashing him.
3 Mar 2015, 14:01 PM
#51
Posts: 1604 | Subs: 3
CoH2 doesn't have a morale system (a conventional one I mean, suppression kinda is one), so other ways need to be thought up.
My suggestions would be to make their received accuracy higher and a received damage increase when a certain amount of squads are too close to each other, say 3.
The options are there. The meta exists to be changed.
Have you ever compared the Wargames maps with the Coh2 maps? War Games maps are fucking huge. Now in coh2, if you play road to Cutoff (Kharkov) which is 1vs1 & 2vs2 it is inevitable that units will eventually clump up in a 2vs2 game.
Ettelbrück in 3vs3 is also a fine example that it's sometimes impossible to keep units spread.
What you demand is in my opinion plain stupid. If I put 2 cons behind a sandbag and a maxim nearby to keep my flank clear, I should get a debuff for that?
If you need to know stats of certain unit: http://stat.coh2.hu
Which faction is OP and which is UP? Check it out here
Tips for beginners and wannabe pro's
Which faction is OP and which is UP? Check it out here
Tips for beginners and wannabe pro's
3 Mar 2015, 14:03 PM
#52
Posts: 1604 | Subs: 3
No it doesn't use AOE blob punishers and blobers get destroyed. OKW blobs are a bit rampart yes, but that's a problem with OKW suffering too little manpower bleed rather than anything else.
Every faction without caches and team weapons would accumulate manpower over time.
If you need to know stats of certain unit: http://stat.coh2.hu
Which faction is OP and which is UP? Check it out here
Tips for beginners and wannabe pro's
Which faction is OP and which is UP? Check it out here
Tips for beginners and wannabe pro's
3 Mar 2015, 14:39 PM
#53
Posts: 531
easiest way to prevent blobbing is win early game, and then hopefully they surrender.. because fuck trying to baserush them early game when their starting area has 3CM flak guns for... no fucking particular reason
3 Mar 2015, 15:05 PM
#54
1 Posts: 72
Sorry, but at top level in 1v1 this is not the case. OKW can easily afford vehicles and assuming equal map control, they can get a jagpanzer out at the same time a sherman comes out.. Granted, OKW usually is behind in map control, but even then they can get very good light vehicles such as the walking stuka and puma at 8 minutes or even earlier, while the flak HT usually arrives at 5-6.
Let me get that straight.
Stuka(100f)+Puma(70f)+Flakht(55f)+tech(0f; due to 40 starting fuel) = 225f
So OKW needs 225f for these units in the first 8minutes (you said flak 5-6min,puma and stuka at 8min)
Thats 28.125f/min on average - so it needs more fuel later due to having less income naturally at the start of the game. BTW: 28 unadjusted fuel are 42 adjusted fuel. When your opponent gets 42,42 (or OKW 28.125f)/minute you hopelessly fked up the early and can aswell call it gg. As you already said OKW has less map control so its more likely not to happen.
because USF nades are completely horrible and can easily be dodged by pretty much anyone.lol
3 Mar 2015, 15:13 PM
#55
Posts: 1484
I think i Need to say that again: This thread is not only about OKW or SU, It's about ALL factions.
So please no whinning fanboys.
Everyone knows OKW has the strongest blob as it can counter both Shermans/T-34s (armor) AND ANY infantry with Obers.
USF blob is just meh (not to mention reinforcement cost for Rifles).
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3 Mar 2015, 15:14 PM
#56
Posts: 170
Problem is volks just don't get wiped. I have so many 2v2 games where allies have full map control but those volks blobs just keep coming back and at some point when they have 3+ vet and shreks with some obers + any heavy tank they just start walking over any defenses. You just can't do anything to stop the shrek blob. Shoot katyusha they just retreat and they are back before the barrage is off cooldown.
3 Mar 2015, 15:19 PM
#57
Posts: 1702
Let me get that straight.
Stuka(100f)+Puma(70f)+Flakht(55f)+tech(0f; due to 40 starting fuel) = 225f
So OKW needs 225f for these units in the first 8minutes (you said flak 5-6min,puma and stuka at 8min)
Thats 28.125f/min on average - so it needs more fuel later due to having less income naturally at the start of the game. BTW: 28 unadjusted fuel are 42 adjusted fuel. When your opponent gets 42,42 (or OKW 28.125f)/minute you hopelessly fked up the early and can aswell call it gg. As you already said OKW has less map control so its more likely not to happen.
Sorry you misunderstood me. I said one of these units at this time, not all 3....
3 Mar 2015, 15:31 PM
#58
Posts: 503
didnt read the whole thread, but im pretty sure someone said something along the lines of:
"blobbing is a bad way to play. you sacrifice a lot of map presence for a single powerful force that is vulnerable to anti-blob measures"
+1 to that
im very happy about blobbing enemies. only 1 engagement i have to focus on, no need to worry about my capping squads getting engaged while im not noticing it and just 1 target to shot all my indirect fire/abilities at
"blobbing is a bad way to play. you sacrifice a lot of map presence for a single powerful force that is vulnerable to anti-blob measures"
+1 to that
im very happy about blobbing enemies. only 1 engagement i have to focus on, no need to worry about my capping squads getting engaged while im not noticing it and just 1 target to shot all my indirect fire/abilities at
3 Mar 2015, 15:54 PM
#59
Posts: 471
didnt read the whole thread, but im pretty sure someone said something along the lines of:
"blobbing is a bad way to play. you sacrifice a lot of map presence for a single powerful force that is vulnerable to anti-blob measures"
+1 to that
im very happy about blobbing enemies. only 1 engagement i have to focus on, no need to worry about my capping squads getting engaged while im not noticing it and just 1 target to shot all my indirect fire/abilities at
Unless what you gradually do is use your blob to isolate squads and wipe them.
Also, a blob allows you to take control of key sections of the map and hold them. Once you have your half of the map and the enemy's cutoff, what does it matter if your units are in one place?
3 Mar 2015, 16:18 PM
#60
Posts: 503
Unless what you gradually do is use your blob to isolate squads and wipe them.
Also, a blob allows you to take control of key sections of the map and hold them. Once you have your half of the map and the enemy's cutoff, what does it matter if your units are in one place?
sorry but if you cant keep track of the blob and lose single units to it thats just bad... it not like it wont be easy to spot
when hes at your cutoff with all his forces why not go for his then? unless its a terrible choke-pointy map like semoisky that will work. and even there you could go to the other side and cap
when i lose games its mostly because my opponent is better at microing and is doing better in a multitude of smaller engagements (resulting in me losing a unit here and there)
but yes when you see the blob you feel inclined to fight it... even with a smaller force. and that will slowly but steadily bleed you to death
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