Grens are fine, it's still the maps that hurt Ostheer the most early on.
+1
See we never had complaints about a 4 man squad before WFA so why now? The reason is the close proximity of models, just introduce a spread formation problem solved.
Grens...
28 Feb 2015, 18:43 PM
#41
Posts: 1484
+1
See we never had complaints about a 4 man squad before WFA so why now? The reason is the close proximity of models, just introduce a spread formation problem solved.
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28 Feb 2015, 18:58 PM
#42
1 
Posts: 2307 | Subs: 4
They should stay a 4 man squad, it makes them unique. Grens (and cons) really need a better vet 1 ability, they don't really get any use in early game. This should give them a boost in early game before they have the manpower and munitions to spend on the medi-bunker.
Tobis "Complete Throw"
Someone asked what my avatar was from... I really don't know.
Defeated Paula and knocked him out of 2v2 Anniversary Cup
Someone asked what my avatar was from... I really don't know.
Defeated Paula and knocked him out of 2v2 Anniversary Cup
28 Feb 2015, 19:08 PM
#43
Posts: 380
hm nope, your early game without hmg42 is very hard to play, combined arms is a key to victory for ost.
But isn't the meta already Gren Spam?
28 Feb 2015, 20:16 PM
#44
Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1
Then they all would need a price increase if you can't see the imbalance yourself yet(and I know you can't).
No they would not, you can keep the stats of a unit the same but give them an additional model to help prevent stupid RNG squad wipes/improve durability.
See we never had complaints about a 4 man squad before WFA so why now? The reason is the close proximity of models, just introduce a spread formation problem solved.
Because the DPS on the field increased when WFA came out. It used to be Axis = 4 men squads Allies = 6 men squads. Now we have 2 additional factions that totally break this pattern. It makes no sense to keep Ostheer at the same squad sizes when the justification for it is long gone.
28 Feb 2015, 21:12 PM
#45
Posts: 1617
Just fix the spacing, lmgs and either reduce the reinforcement to 27 or make grens 6 pop cap.
28 Feb 2015, 21:12 PM
#46
Posts: 365
yeh but ostheer also has their engineers to back them up early game. ostheer engineers are almost as good as sturmpios in close range. get them in cover and upclose to an enemy you'll deal massive damage, and if you have grenadiers supporting the engineers they can finish the job and force a retreat.
Additionally, once grenadiers get their LMG upgrades they become quite scary and dont even need help from the engineers to tear up conscripts and riflemen. You just need to make good use of your engineers in the early game until you get that LMG upgrade.
Additionally, once grenadiers get their LMG upgrades they become quite scary and dont even need help from the engineers to tear up conscripts and riflemen. You just need to make good use of your engineers in the early game until you get that LMG upgrade.
28 Feb 2015, 21:16 PM
#47
Posts: 2779
yeh but ostheer also has their engineers to back them up early game. ostheer engineers are almost as good as sturmpios in close range. get them in cover and upclose to an enemy you'll deal massive damage, and if you have grenadiers supporting the engineers they can finish the job and force a retreat.
Additionally, once grenadiers get their LMG upgrades they become quite scary and dont even need help from the engineers to tear up conscripts and riflemen. You just need to make good use of your engineers in the early game until you get that LMG upgrade.
Wut?
28 Feb 2015, 21:18 PM
#48
Posts: 440
Maybe right after March Deployment Ost Pios were sort of good but that definitely doesn't hold now.
28 Feb 2015, 21:34 PM
#49
Posts: 3602 | Subs: 1
I can't wait to have gren5 men + lmg42, obers little brothers for super cheap price 
Naked gren probably need a buff but not being a 5 men squad.
Naked gren probably need a buff but not being a 5 men squad.
28 Feb 2015, 22:05 PM
#50
Posts: 1705
Between grenadier,panzergrenadier and mg42 things need to change.
28 Feb 2015, 23:50 PM
#51
Posts: 229
What about a fifth man at vet 3? Maybe that would hinder the late-game wipes a bit?
AKA Domestic Dude
28 Feb 2015, 23:59 PM
#52
Posts: 440
What about a fifth man at vet 3? Maybe that would hinder the late-game wipes a bit?
RE's have that feature, don't see why Grens couldn't. LMG will probably be nerfed at some point anyway.
1 Mar 2015, 02:29 AM
#53
Posts: 134
i think they are fine
but what i would like to change is they reinforcement cost since its bigger than for rifleman
with the current tech costs that could help out a little bit.
but what i would like to change is they reinforcement cost since its bigger than for rifleman
with the current tech costs that could help out a little bit.
2 Mar 2015, 08:30 AM
#54
Posts: 362
Move to HQ. Fix spacing. Make better vs. Rifles at long-range. Buff MG42 slightly.
2 Mar 2015, 08:35 AM
#55
Posts: 952 | Subs: 1
Actually, a 5th man upgrade on an individual squad basis (say for example 40 munitions or manpower or whatever resource to increase squad size of only that squad to 5), in exchange for permanently disabling LMG upgrade on that squad, would be interesting to see in action. As some people have already said though, it's more of the maps that are the problems I think.
2 Mar 2015, 08:41 AM
#56
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
i think they are fine
but what i would like to change is they reinforcement cost since its bigger than for rifleman
with the current tech costs that could help out a little bit.
Rifles cost 280mp.
Reinforce for 4x28=112mp.
112 is 40% of 280.
Grens cost 240mp.
Reinforce for 3x30=90mp.
90 is 37,5% of 240.
Universal reinforce formula aims to give unit reinforce cost to full for 40% of total worth(less for weapon teams as not all members are combat potent), so following that, grens are slightly underpriced when reinforcing, but that balances out by them having 7 pop instead of 6 for other 240mp units.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
2 Mar 2015, 08:46 AM
#57
Posts: 952 | Subs: 1
Isn't the formula reinforce cost = (squad cost / number of members in squad) / 2? I think every squad in the game follows it (barring squads which spawn out of buildings or airborne)
Grenadiers- 30 = (240/4)/2
Riflemen- 28 = (280/5)/2
Conscripts- 20 = (240/6)/2
Volksgrens- ~24 = (235/5)/2
Panzergrens- ~42 = (340/4)/2
Pioneers- 25 = (200/4)/2
etc etc
Grenadiers- 30 = (240/4)/2
Riflemen- 28 = (280/5)/2
Conscripts- 20 = (240/6)/2
Volksgrens- ~24 = (235/5)/2
Panzergrens- ~42 = (340/4)/2
Pioneers- 25 = (200/4)/2
etc etc
2 Mar 2015, 08:59 AM
#58
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
Not sure, its about 40% of total squad cost to bring the squad from 1 man to full and thats the goal.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
2 Mar 2015, 09:12 AM
#59
Posts: 1304 | Subs: 13
Isn't the formula reinforce cost = (squad cost / number of members in squad) / 2? I think every squad in the game follows it (barring squads which spawn out of buildings or airborne)
Grenadiers- 30 = (240/4)/2
Riflemen- 28 = (280/5)/2
Conscripts- 20 = (240/6)/2
Volksgrens- ~24 = (235/5)/2
Panzergrens- ~42 = (340/4)/2
Pioneers- 25 = (200/4)/2
etc etc
Not to derail, but here's how it works, if I read the AE correctly.
The cost of the squad is the manpower of the total number of entities. Pioneers are set to 50 which makes the squad total 200 when accounting the four men in total. In a separate file there's the squad itself which has its own modifier for reinforcing. Most units are set to 0.5 for their reinforcing, so Strummingbird is mostly correct and that is generally the simplest way to calculate it.
Weapon crews are similar, but their gun has its own MP cost accounted for in their total price. A maxim, for example is 60 while its crew is 30. So 60 + (30 x 6) = 240.
2 Mar 2015, 09:41 AM
#60
Posts: 1604 | Subs: 3
I am convinced that Ostheer desperately needs the ability to make green cover. It's a serious drawback, being able to put down green cover (sandbags, tank traps) is what you need to punish units that try to close in, it's also making harassing more effective, because when the enemy tries to clear a cutoff which is protected by green covered units in ends up in a loss or significant mp bleed at least!
If you need to know stats of certain unit: http://stat.coh2.hu
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