Grens...

They need somthing. Against sov con spam u can hold ur own against con spam with lmg's and well placed mg's

But USF..

They dont stand a chance

I think grens should be a 5 man unit, and atLeast perform like volks in the early game

Also i think the g43 upgrade should be non-doc to compete with rifles ate vet 3

The mg-42 could also use a slight buff also.

Everything in t2 needs a buff.

T3 and t4 should cost less

Ost has issues yes,but grens should not be buffed they are already potent with vet and weapon upgradea

Can you expand on what you mean by 'Preform like volks early game'
Because volks are pretty weak in the AI department.

The Wehr early game problems don't really come from grens it comes from under-preforming sniper and MG-42.

Can you expand on what you mean by 'Preform like volks early game'
Because volks are pretty weak in the AI department.

They are similarly priced to volks.

I feel they should perform exactly like them in the early game.

Volks dont get completely overwhelmed like grens do when supported

They are similarly priced to volks.

I feel they should perform exactly like them in the early game.

Volks dont get completely overwhelmed like grens do when supported

That is because the Kubel dose its job as a suppression platform,
Furthermore Volks come from HQ so you don't have to cut 1 squad for the building..
Maybe just starting the game with a gren is a alternative to altering the combat
ability of grens.

Or just make first T1 cost no MP.

All Ostheer infantry needs a 5th man, they can keep the same DPS.

honestly, i find grens to be fine. the key is to stick to cover in groups of 2. can be very difficult to break.

Grens are fine, it's still the maps that hurt Ostheer the most early on.

Grens are fine, it's still the maps that hurt Ostheer the most early on.

+1

Is it really easier to "fix" all maps and every future map? Or just fix ostheers lack of tools in certain situations?

Grens are fine, it's still the maps that hurt Ostheer the most early on.

Moving HMG42s around Faymonville is like sitting on large spikes.

Is it really easier to "fix" all maps and every future map? Or just fix ostheers lack of tools in certain situations?

This, Ostheer should be viable regardless of 'map'

Grens are fine, it's still the maps that hurt Ostheer the most early on.

+1

It would be nice is our pioneers could actually carry their weight and be a semi-decent CQC unit for T1. Sure their DPS is semi-decent at close, but they have to be in hugging range and be standing still to do damage and they incredibly fragile when at this range. They are too costly for their reinforce compared to the other builders. We could either get them to be cheaper so we don't bleed as hard when we need them to act as meatshields against allied CQC infantry.

I mean really, 25mp per model?

And as Luvnest has said, fix the maps. A lot of them are not friendly to Ostheer since we rely on fighting at long-range to win our fights early on.

i think a buff to panzergrenadiers armour could help againts rifles and cons spam as a counter.. they drop like flies when they try to close in unlike shocks..

Grens are fine. Increasing how many men they have wont help in any way vs rifles and if you are trying to go gren spam vs rifle spam you deserve to lose. Rifles are the only thing US can build early game and they need to be effective.
That isn't to say to say there aren't changes that need to be made like, delaying smoke and luitenent but that's on the US side. Ostheer T1 itself is perfectly fine and buffing it in any way will offset balance vs soviets.

Something has to change, Grens shouldn't get run over by rifles so badly

While the frequent one shots are quite annoying. I do not agree with a 5 man gren squad. g43s are also not as good as you think the lmg42 upgrade is much better, just more expensive. Why would you wanna make your grens a close range squad that will still lose to rifles??? The lmg42 clearly outclasses it.

g43s are cool weapons yes. But in terms of cost effectiveness the lmg42 is just better performance. g43s should get a slight buff.

The grenadier squad itself is not so bad, the buffs should be directed more towards the 222 scout car, in terms of armor, 2cm gun damage, and health. All for a cost increase to 25-30 fuel.

I wanna say panzergrenadiers are mostly fine, the only thing I think is that mid range dps needs a very slight buff. Nothing overkill.

Also for gods sake the FHT needs to be usable. ffs sake relic this unit could very well be usable but its not because its fucking locked away to the late game.

As well as t2 tech cost. Please please please reduce t2 teching cost by 10 fuel and add that onto t3 teching.

Oh yes and the mg42, slight turn rate buff, slight suppression buff.

Overall the ostheer suffers from very slight UP aspects on most of their staple units like i have just listed. In their current state they collectively put the entire faction at a disadvantage. But overall grenadiers are not one of these units. Just the g43 upgrade. Knowing how easily relic fucking loves to ruin balance and overbuff/overnerf units or simply just makes the wrong decision we will probably never see this.

well add ability for grens to dig sandbags that shoudl even all this gren balance issues out..

Saying bad maps solves nothing.Either fix all maps which will never be done ,or change ost earlygame infantry power.Long range fighting currently is FAIL.Because ur opponent won't oblige and u have neither the DPS to punish him for closing nor the durability at 4 man squads to slug it out up close even after he has lost a member closing.
On top of that bloody one shots on veteran squads.And that papergrenadier 'advanced infantry' and popcornsprayer42 as ur support.