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Something for Soviets vs. OKW in 1v1

26 Feb 2015, 23:13 PM
#1
avatar of Purlictor

Posts: 393

Something I wrote from my own experiences of the match-up and what I've seen on streams. Contains a bit of my love for snipers in this game. Feel free to point out any mistakes or if I'm just flat out wrong at parts. Gonna use some replays from Jesulin since I think people consider him to be the best player atm. It's not really written for good players since they know all this shit already but it could be useful to a beginner.

In 1v1 vs. OKW, you have 3 options as far as openers go which will define your early/mid strategy:

Conscripts.

Now you can't half-ass this: You gotta go fast and you gotta go hard. Their units are not only better than yours at the start (sturmpios and kubel) but also scale better and once he gets obers your conscripts are almost worthless and certainly a manpower drain. What you do have, is numbers. You have to constantly pressure, constantly harass and always force unfavourable engagements for him with oorah and molotovs. Tricky to do if your opponent is playing solid with his kubel and/or MGs, but it can work. You can do this with FHQ but I don't own the commander so I'll not pretend to know the intricacies. of that strategy.

Tier 2

You get the vCoH feel of playing wehr where your conscripts stop your maxims from getting flanked. It's the safest of the three: You have early access to AT and you'll always have some conscripts to back them up with AT grenades. Has the same problem as number one though: your maxims/cons scale quite poorly into the mid and late game. Also note that it's sometimes better to place your maxims in open cover so they don't bunch up and lose 5-6 guys to a single grenade.

Example :


Tier 1
This build requires probably the most skill but can also be (imo) the most powerful if you can pull it off. The first reason to get this tier is the scout car. For a tiny 15 fuel you get this early game map control monster. Pop a flamer inside or just use it to chase down kubels, it's worth its weight in gold. Once schrecks are out use it as a way to stop harassing squads by using its speed and mobility to your advantage.

Second is the penal squad. Mostly just a different flavour conscript squad, don't expect them to be amazing infantry but they can hold their own at mid range. The flamer is reasonably useful but they lack the AT grenade of cons. You're basically just trading off late game usefulness for early game fire power.

Third is the sniper, probably my favourite unit. OKW ironically possesses no reliable solution to these guys other than the unit this sniper is meant to counter (good job there Relic) which is elite infantry, mostly in the form of the obersoldaten squad. In the early game, you want to be sniping stormpioneers whenever possible. Keep your conscripts in front and always kite, being at anything other than max range will see your sniper squad dead within a blink of an eye. Don't be afraid to give ground, just soft retreat until your opponent stops chasing you then turn around and snipe him. Then comes the hard part: Obersoldaten go down quickly to double sniper teams, but the second they get within range, you are dead. I'm not kidding, these guys don't need to stop to instantly wipe your valuable 360MP investment. Be extremely careful because one screw up can lose you the game instantly. This leaves 4 ways for OKW to deal with them:
  • Panzerfusiliers. Basically what they do is just use the 6-man squads to overrun your position through brute force since you can't force retreat squads fast enough. Throwing in some shocks or just more of your own infantry should solve this problem.
  • Stuka Zu Fus. Insanely deadly if not reacted to, spam sprint (I think they hotkey is N) on your sniper teams, split them up and hug shotblockers (since your opponent will hardly ever target the edges of those). I won't even mention the other indirect fire the OKW has because it is pretty much useless.
  • Fallschirmjaegers. Be quick on the retreat when you see these guys spawn close to you or otherwise just sprint away to safety. A good solution is to burn down important houses close to where your snipers operate around or those near your retreat path if you have a flamer to spare (such as the house next to your base on Semois or Kholodny).
  • Flanking. Yeah right, a fruit salad has a higher IQ than your average OKW player, no way they can get the idea of attacking from multiple directions into their thick little skulls. Nonetheless, prepare for this one in a million chance by placing mines everywhere.


That being said, there are many players who prefer not to play with snipers, just getting Tier 1 for the scout car and the map control it provides, then transitioning on to T2 quicker or guards + 120mm as seen here:

The problem with going T1 is the flak halftrack (which pretty much every OKW player will get in response). This thing comes out insanely fast and T1 offers nothing to counter it. I'd advise teching to T2 asap for AT guns, which shouldn't be a problem if you used your scout car well to gain enough map control thus fuel. Otherwise you could get guards or a lot more conscripts to try to lure it into an AT grenade ambush, the latter of which is a soft counter at best which requires a lot of luck/ screwing up on your opponents side of things.

Teching to Tiers 3 & 4
Teching is a very big decision to make. You already have the units you actually need in Tiers 1 & 2 + any call-ins you have. Whenever you decide to tech, consider the cost of building the tier 3/4 building and how close you are to a better call-in. Most of the time you'll find that just waiting for a few more CPs is the best choice. Nonetheless there are certain niches teching up can fill:

Tier 3 provides a shock unit in the form of a T-34/76, which is a pretty shitty unit on its own but can chase off the flak halftrack and can take a few schreck hits so you can afford to be a bit aggressive with it. Useful for when you still need to wait a while for your IS-2/KV-8. The T-70 while fragile is great at killing retreating squads due to its speed and RoF. It also gains a massive amount of vision at vet.

Tier 4 provides slightly more solid units, with SU-85 being pretty much your only hope against a KT. Just remember that it is outclassed by the jagdpanzer and schrecks are lethal to it. The katyusha is decent at fighting blobs but often times you're better off saving for more tanks.

The flak truck
Most OKW players will eventually tech up to the flak truck for their most powerful units. If they place it offensively, you can decide to push it. For this you need:
  • LoS. Seems obvious, but the gun has a massive range so it can sometimes be difficult to get a squad in range. Attack grounding is an alternative, but keep in mind this can slow down the process considerably. My personal favourite is sniper flares, but good use of the enhanced vision range provided by buildings can also do the trick.
  • Damage. Most of the time this will be an AT gun which only just outranges it. Have it fire on the truck ASAP, or attack ground if you can't see it. Other options are mortars (slow to kill it but will stop the OKW from repairing it), tanks (be awar that the flak gun can do quite a bit of damage to mediums) or catching it when it is setting up. It takes massive damage while doing so, so sacrificing a squad for it might well be worth it.
  • Support. This is often the most overlooked part, because the moment you commit to taking it out, you need to be sure you can protect whatever is trying to kill it. Usually this will mean maxims, cons and shocks, but if you've done a Tier 1 with snipers -> Tier 2 for zis start your sniper micro has to be pretty much perfect since you'll be lacking the infantry to protect your ATG. If you're doing it with tanks it's not as bad, but keep in mind that if your opponent loses this truck he can still call in a command panther if he does not have a doc or otherwise tech to KT if he has sufficient fuel.


Commanders
When it comes to commanders, I'm sure it won't come to you as a surprise that you are looking for three things:

1. Call-in tanks.
2. Shock troops (or maybe guards)
3. AoE

In that order. Which means your best bets are:
Guard motor coordination (guards, 120mm mortar, mark target, field reps, 2xT-34/85)
Shock rifle frontline (shocks, ATG camo, incendiary barrage, KV-8, IS-2)
Counterattack tactics (shocks, reconrun, for the motherland, B-4, KV-1)

Or alternatively docs with an ISU. Remember to stick on HE most of the time: The AP rounds are actually not that great and you want this unit to be gibbing as many squads as possible.

Game plan
The strength of OKW is their insanely powerful infantry that scales a lot better than yours and good late game tanks. To counter this, you want to deny fuel, kill squads and then end the game as soon as possible with your heavy tank call-ins. Remember to spam mines everywhere: they are OP as hell and most of the time your opponent will only have one sweeper.

Late game
If your opponent gets to the late game with a considerable amount of vetted squads alive and a panther+pak43 combo or KT, you're pretty much dead. Killing vetted squads is your top priority here, but realistically you have a very small chance of winning. Even more reason to end the game quick with your first few heavy tank call-ins. For fighting a KT, I'd advise either an unrealistic amount of T34/85s+mark taget or IS2s. Otherwise luring it over a mine and sniping it with SU85s can work too.
27 Feb 2015, 09:12 AM
#2
avatar of ElSlayer

Posts: 1605 | Subs: 1

This forum needs "Like" button.

Awesome guide. Thank you and keep up the good work! :)
27 Feb 2015, 18:00 PM
#3
avatar of niksa

Posts: 64

Wow man thank you very much for this guide



NIce game on minsk whit lot of sniper
27 Feb 2015, 20:20 PM
#4
avatar of isoul

Posts: 48

Having access to Luchs at a net cost of 130F (80+50) while Soviets can only a ZiS with such amount, being able to field a Panther for a net cost of 255F (80+175) while a Soviet can field a T-34 at 220F (forget the AT nades...). Suggesting that in order to beat OKW you need a doc with call-in tanks and if he gets away to late game with enough vetted squad you are almost surely gonna lose AND...

AND mines are considered OP'ed??? What kind of evil is this?
28 Feb 2015, 11:44 AM
#5
avatar of broodwarjc

Posts: 824

jump backJump back to quoted post27 Feb 2015, 20:20 PMisoul
Having access to Luchs at a net cost of 130F (80+50) while Soviets can only a ZiS with such amount, being able to field a Panther for a net cost of 255F (80+175) while a Soviet can field a T-34 at 220F (forget the AT nades...). Suggesting that in order to beat OKW you need a doc with call-in tanks and if he gets away to late game with enough vetted squad you are almost surely gonna lose AND...

AND mines are considered OP'ed??? What kind of evil is this?


OKW has -33% fuel so it is a third more than 255 fuel to get Panzerschwer HQ and Panther.
28 Feb 2015, 19:36 PM
#6
avatar of isoul

Posts: 48



OKW has -33% fuel so it is a third more than 255 fuel to get Panzerschwer HQ and Panther.


You overlooked that this -33% Fuel (and -20% Mun) sounds much but practically its not since its per Strategic point. Fuel points doesn't follow the -33% rule as its normanly 7 and for OKW 5.

So if you and the OKW opponent own half the map (lets say Langreska for example), which means you and OKW player owns 5 Strat points, you get 7F/min more compared to OKW. On Langreska in particular you 'll get 26F as Soviet (or US or Wehrmacht) and 19F as OKW. Now if you do the calculation 2/3*26 isn't equal to 19 but 17.3.

So, no its not -33%!!!

I won't even mention that OKW have no infantry upgrades that require fuel...
1 Mar 2015, 03:37 AM
#7
avatar of broodwarjc

Posts: 824

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Feb 2015, 19:36 PMisoul


You overlooked that this -33% Fuel (and -20% Mun) sounds much but practically its not since its per Strategic point. Fuel and Munition points earn you the same amount still.

So if you and the OKW opponent own half the map (lets say Langreska for example), which means you and OKW player owns 5 Strat points, you get 5F/min more compared to OKW. On Langreska in particular you 'll get 26F as Soviet (or US or Wehrmacht) and 21F as OKW.

So, no its not -33%!!!

I won't even mention that OKW have no infantry upgrades that require fuel...


My point is that if you want to do a Unit Cost to Unit Cost comparison then you should get your amounts correct.
1 Mar 2015, 09:47 AM
#8
avatar of isoul

Posts: 48



My point is that if you want to do a Unit Cost to Unit Cost comparison then you should get your amounts correct.


Yours weren't correct as well, weren't they?
1 Mar 2015, 10:21 AM
#9
avatar of Cogetama

Posts: 67

Well done. Someone should layout ans edit this to a tactics guide.
14 Apr 2015, 09:54 AM
#10
avatar of Bulgakov

Posts: 987

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Feb 2015, 19:36 PMisoul


You overlooked that this -33% Fuel (and -20% Mun) sounds much but practically its not since its per Strategic point. Fuel points doesn't follow the -33% rule as its normanly 7 and for OKW 5.

So if you and the OKW opponent own half the map (lets say Langreska for example), which means you and OKW player owns 5 Strat points, you get 7F/min more compared to OKW. On Langreska in particular you 'll get 26F as Soviet (or US or Wehrmacht) and 19F as OKW. Now if you do the calculation 2/3*26 isn't equal to 19 but 17.3.

So, no its not -33%!!!

I won't even mention that OKW have no infantry upgrades that require fuel...


But you're still wrong about this "being able to field a Panther for a net cost of 255F". Very wrong.


So add the -% to the fact that OKW always has a map-control deficit while soviets are drowning in fuel. Check plenty of casts and replays and you'll see that almost every time soviet map control is 60%+
14 Apr 2015, 23:49 PM
#11
avatar of W.DeVille

Posts: 15

Thank you man! This helps a rookie.
17 Apr 2015, 00:15 AM
#12
avatar of RottenJeeves

Posts: 91

Guards over shocks all day every day. :)
17 Apr 2015, 06:45 AM
#13
avatar of Purlictor

Posts: 393

Yeah this was written for last patch, right now guard motor tactics is probably your best bet in most cases. Haven't tried AT-tactics but it seems kind of overrated tbh.

Snipers lost their 'get out of jail free' ability so using them got a bit trickier. I do believe obers are more expensive to reinforce (not sure though) so you'll probably be seeing more Pzfus instead of obers.
22 Apr 2015, 03:24 AM
#14
avatar of Unholyfroggod

Posts: 11

I will study this and watch the replays because I am completely incapable of beating the OKW with Soviets at this point. I'm constantly running away from everything because their INF are better and then their tanks are better etc. thanks for the guide :)
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