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Assault Grenadiers

Neo
24 Feb 2015, 23:36 PM
#61
avatar of Neo

Posts: 471

They could use a little extra health in my opinion. Currently they're really a waste of MP as they often lose to cons because they have to get so close to do damage they lose models just doing that.
25 Feb 2015, 01:33 AM
#62
avatar of spam.r33k

Posts: 503

jump backJump back to quoted post24 Feb 2015, 12:50 PMKatitof

True that and this is why army composition does matter.
One AG will reward you with wins in early engagements and get you more ground then additional gren would, but when you decide to spam them, you'll be heavily punished.
As the game goes on they are replaced by LMG grens and even pgrens if one likes to use them, becoming themselves cappers that will chase off other cappers and force proper response from opposing player.
I believe people complain not only because they don't translate well into the late game, but because spamming them is not effective, there seems to be general rule that says "if I can't spam it, it sucks" stuck in players heads.

Its not like they are the only infantry like that, as I've said already whole soviet core doesn't scale at all into late game as conscripts are demoted to being walking mines and exp piñatas past 10 minute mark.


+1
25 Feb 2015, 01:59 AM
#63
avatar of Sierra

Posts: 432

Problem with Assault Grenadiers is that they have the same exact role as American Assault Engineers while having the same exact price tag as both Assault Engineers and American Riflemen. Yet they perform piss poor compared to either.

They have no AT capability, they have almost zero durability, and very little damage output even at punching you in the nuts distance.


All in all the only real differences between them and a Pioneer squad is the fifth man, and assault grenades. (upgrades like flamers, minesweeper, etc. excluded.)

Hell Pioneers serve at least 5x the benefit as Assault Grenadiers and I'm certain that a Pioneer with a flamer would still end up deadlier than a Assault Gren squad head-to-head.
25 Feb 2015, 10:35 AM
#65
avatar of Carlos Danger

Posts: 362

jump backJump back to quoted post24 Feb 2015, 10:01 AMKatitof

Thats not really how RTS games work.
Even in best RTS games, early game units are being replaced by late game tech, look at one of my all time fav RTS-WC3, footmen replaced by knights, orcs by taurens and so on.
Even in SC2 you wouldn't be using marines and zerglings after certain time, would you?

Its no different here except for the fact that one army is absolutely forced to use units that become completely irrelevant late game.

If you preserved your AGs, just use them for capping, they'll beat all other capping squads effortlessly.

And your example is flawed(just like it was flawed in coh1), you had late game unit with a price of early game one-if that is not the definition of imbalance, then I don't know what it.
You had to pay 150 munitions (I think) and research Battle Phase 3 to get the Stuka upgrade on the Sd.Kfz 251. It was definitely balanced. What it did was evolve an early-game unit into a late-game unit through upgrades. Basically, scaling.
25 Feb 2015, 10:41 AM
#66
avatar of BlackScythe

Posts: 34

That's why i want STG44 for the AssGrens. There could be the requirement to unlock Battlephase 2 before you are able to give the STG's to them.
25 Feb 2015, 11:14 AM
#67
avatar of ImSkemo

Posts: 444

There is way to use ass grens like make 2 of them don't cap hide them till they are together and run to his cut off with pioneer supportin certain maps this will win the game in few minutes.. If your opp sends 1 squad at a time to intercept you already won..
25 Feb 2015, 12:17 PM
#68
avatar of Trubbbel

Posts: 721

That's why i want STG44 for the AssGrens. There could be the requirement to unlock Battlephase 2 before you are able to give the STG's to them.

They would be overlapping Panz Grens too much then I think. Like somebody else wrote before me. Maybe they are fine. But they can only really be used effectively in close quarters village maps lacking stone walls. Maybe that is the intention.
25 Feb 2015, 12:48 PM
#69
avatar of MajorBloodnok
Admin Red  Badge
Patrion 314

Posts: 10665 | Subs: 9

Flame post invised. Please keep the conversations civil, even if you disagree with each other.

Back to topic
25 Feb 2015, 12:53 PM
#70
avatar of pussyking
Donator 11

Posts: 551

Cons should get an LMG upgrade
25 Feb 2015, 12:57 PM
#71
avatar of Burts

Posts: 1702

The last thing this overpowered mechanized assault commander needs is more buffs.


Yes, assualt grenadiers dont scale. They aren't supposed to. Just like conscripts. You get extra early game power but less late game power.

25 Feb 2015, 13:42 PM
#72
avatar of BlackScythe

Posts: 34

it wouldn't be that bad if conscripts had to run if they have to fight 1v1 against Assgrens. Would be same Situation like Grens and Shocks. I don't want to see AssGrens as strong as Shocks. There are doctrinal upgrades for Consripts (PPSH).
25 Feb 2015, 14:47 PM
#73
avatar of FaustCostBulletin

Posts: 521

My friend I mentioned earlier who uses Assault Grenadiers often said that they beat PPSh conscripts. Is that true? I wasn't paying attention during the game.
25 Feb 2015, 14:47 PM
#74
avatar of JohnnyB

Posts: 2396 | Subs: 1

I don't know but when they are vetted, they aren't bad at all (the AGs).
26 Feb 2015, 06:51 AM
#75
avatar of John Doe

Posts: 75

Sup with STG fetish?
26 Feb 2015, 07:32 AM
#76
avatar of MarcoRossolini

Posts: 1042

My friend I mentioned earlier who uses Assault Grenadiers often said that they beat PPSh conscripts. Is that true? I wasn't paying attention during the game.


I regularly use PPSh cons.
In my experience, PPSh cons murder Agrens (which logically doesn't make much sense, given who has the more automatic weapons...)
Could be the way I use them, I always lob a molotov on top of them if I can and Ura in as close as possible and focus fire.
I don't fear Agrens when I have PPSh cons.
26 Feb 2015, 08:05 AM
#77
avatar of FaustCostBulletin

Posts: 521

Funny, he thought the other way around. Maybe suppression was in play then? Anyway good to know that as cons should be better. Those assault grenades are nasty!
26 Feb 2015, 08:56 AM
#78
avatar of newvan

Posts: 354

Asgren mp40 - 8.489/1.58/0.273*5=42.445/7.9/1.365
Cons PPSH - 7.841/0.8/0.099*3+2.989/1.521/0.734*3= 32.49/6.963/2.499

it depends on vet, position & luck.
26 Feb 2015, 09:34 AM
#79
avatar of ElSlayer

Posts: 1605 | Subs: 1

- PPSH Cons have more HP and lose less DPS when losing model
- PPSH Cons are advantaged at long range, so they can stand still maintaining full accuracy, waiting while AssGerms are closing in

I think that is the reasons.
26 Feb 2015, 09:51 AM
#80
avatar of MarcoRossolini

Posts: 1042

Well, I just charge my cons up and it seems to work for me :)
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