120mm Mortar M1943 - no counter, no weakness

Breechloading mortar? Isn't that basically a howitzer.

1170 kg, easily operated by one person.

Yes a Giant Soviet Bear wrestler.

Yes a Giant Soviet Bear wrestler.

It has wheels and under hard ground definitely possible. or have you never pushed a car when somebodies battery got depleted?

Breechloading mortar? Isn't that basically a howitzer.

nope, high elevation and different projectile. the germans made some giant ass self-propelled breech loading siege mortars and used them during WWII a bit.

nope, high elevation and different projectile. the germans made some giant ass self-propelled breech loading siege mortars and used them during WWII a bit.

You mean like that one?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl-Ger%C3%A4t


edit: Oh yeah, regarding the Soviet Bear, this isn't Soviet but still

Link

As usual everyone going on abt OKW/USF/Soviets which are by the way the 3 factions with direct fire supermortar type units.The 120mm,75mm IEG and pack howitzer.Ostheer has none,not even a doctrinal option so its mortar can't fight it,even though grens which need to be static and in cover to get DPS suffer the most wipes from this unit.Another slap for wehr i guess.Yay for the the flexible faction.

As usual everyone going on abt OKW/USF/Soviets which are by the way the 3 factions with direct fire supermortar type units.The 120mm,75mm IEG and pack howitzer.Ostheer has none,not even a doctrinal option so its mortar can't fight it,even though grens which need to be static and in cover to get DPS suffer the most wipes from this unit.Another slap for wehr i guess.Yay for the the flexible faction.

I have to disagree. The Ostheer mortar is really good, it outclasses the LeIG and the Packhowitzer in my opinion. Two of those reign havoc on any army.
Additionally they have the mortar half track, which counters team weapons and mortars, furthermore it's placed in the breakthrough doctrine, which is definitely one of the best doctrines in game.

As usual everyone going on abt OKW/USF/Soviets which are by the way the 3 factions with direct fire supermortar type units.The 120mm,75mm IEG and pack howitzer.Ostheer has none,not even a doctrinal option so its mortar can't fight it,even though grens which need to be static and in cover to get DPS suffer the most wipes from this unit.Another slap for wehr i guess.Yay for the the flexible faction.

they have the mortar HT and their regural mortar is really really good.

I have to disagree. The Ostheer mortar is really good, it outclasses the LeIG and the Packhowitzer in my opinion. Two of those reign havoc on any army.
Additionally they have the mortar half track, which counters team weapons and mortars, furthermore it's placed it's placed in the breakthrough doctrine, which is definitely one of the best doctrines in game.

I don't dispute that ost mortar is good ,just that it can't match the range of any of the rest.Both pack howitzer and 120 mm can bombard it with impunity and are also more durable.So if any of these pieces are bombing u,mortar counter battery isn't going to work for ost.U have to deal with it with infantry.And ost infantry especially on attack is hmm.

I don't dispute that ost mortar is good ,just that it can't match the range of any of the rest.Both pack howitzer and 120 mm can bombard it with impunity and are also more durable.So if any of these pieces are bombing u,mortar counter battery isn't going to work for ost.U have to deal with it with infantry.And ost infantry especially on attack is hmm.

Umm, how is PACK howi more durable or have longer range?

Its default fire got 60 range, it dies instantly when 4th men die, shrecks and AT shells target the gun, not the crew, it can't retreat, it can't even move as fast as other mortars, if it "bombs you from out of your reach" then I suppose you need to somehow, with gods help survive that deadly barrage of three extremely inaccurate shells and enjoy another 2 minutes of silence.

Problem with 120mm? Click incendiary shot, click mortar position-there, 120mm wiped, go collect it.

Umm, how is PACK howi more durable or have longer range?

Its default fire got 60 range, it dies instantly when 4th men die, shrecks and AT shells target the gun, not the crew, it can't retreat, it can't even move as fast as other mortars, if it "bombs you from out of your reach" then I suppose you need to somehow, with gods help survive that deadly barrage of three extremely inaccurate shells and enjoy another 2 minutes of silence.

Problem with 120mm? Click incendiary shot, click mortar position-there, 120mm wiped, go collect it.

Hmm,not bad arguments.But pack howitzer despite what u say often wipes my grenadiers.
For mortar halftrack,i can't refute ur point.Incendiary barrage is excellent.Now if only i had spearhead doctrine.

invised post #56

lets not antagonize people here.

Hmm,not bad arguments.But pack howitzer despite what u say often wipes my grenadiers.
For mortar halftrack,i can't refute ur point.Incendiary barrage is excellent.Now if only i had spearhead doctrine.

Grens get wiped too often because they have to stand still to do decent damage, so it's Whermact's liability. Pack howie is not very effective against OKW because their blob does huge damage on the move.

A few things to keep in mind for the 120mm. First off, you can't compare it with obers. They are infantry not indirect fire. Second, they out range both the Ostheer mortar and the mortar HT making it extremely difficult to deal AT RANGE. When you say yes it's good but it's also a doctrinal unit, so is the mortar HT. In my opinion the range of the 120mm is what makes up the most for its expensive cost. Yes the mortar HT is the best ranged counter for it(other than the Stuka) but one must realize that the mortar HT also costs 40 fuel and is highly susceptible to units like AT guns, and the late game Jackson. The 120mm not only comes fairly early in the game at 2CP (same as Mortar HT) but its also still extremely useful well into late game due to its high durability, damage and range. On smaller 3v3 maps like ettelbruck station it can be a game changer. It also requires no tech. Do I think it needs to be nerfed? I think making it more of a late game unit wouldn't go amiss (4-6 CPs). It's one of the few good late game soviet units and nerfing it isn't a good idea.

4-6 CPs would be ridiculous timing for a mortar.

yeah, i think it's tough to deal with. i'm not sure it's OP myself but it's certainly good and hard to counter. standardizing the movement of mortars (when they get abandoned) would be a good start. i don't really want it to come later or it limits your options too much.

The 120s are very hard to deal with when multiple are made. Atleast when I'm soviets I attempt to make a battery of atleast 3 over time. In the late game it gets pretty ridiculous because the only thing that can get to them are tanks. The only real way to stop 120 abuse is early flanks and pushes. Because they are pretty expensive but extremely effective.

Not sure I'd change them, but If I had to it would be that they get decrewed at 2 men instead of 1 and possibly damage back to 80, but perhaps a slightly larger AOE.

It's a doctrinal unit though, I sometimes find the 120mm missing most of its shots. Honestly, Soviets need a 120mm since the mainline Sov mortar is horrendous.

This is a pretty bad excuse since it comes with one of the best soviet doctrines. Imo it would be counterable if it's range wasn't so huge. On some maps, especially when the thing gets veterancy you can't counter it.

The 120s are very hard to deal with when multiple are made. Atleast when I'm soviets I attempt to make a battery of atleast 3 over time. In the late game it gets pretty ridiculous because the only thing that can get to them are tanks. The only real way to stop 120 abuse is early flanks and pushes.

You make 3 120mm? Thats 1200 mp. Its like 5 cons. How do you defend them? By the way, its seems to be something wrong with you playercard as your games as Soviets doesnt show.

You make 3 120mm? Thats 1200 mp. Its like 5 cons. How do you defend them? By the way, its seems to be something wrong with you playercard as your games as Soviets doesnt show.

Being 4v4 hero doesn't help either.