Using panther tanks.

I am constantly seeing this strategy from OS and OKW where the player will get beaten for 25-30 minutes then just mass panthers and drive them into combat recklessly.

For example; in my last 5 games as American (Which I won all 5 3v3/4v4.)the German players got completely slaughtered/outplayed for the entire match until they where down to 50 or 65 so VPs and then they would just line charge with 2-3 panthers per player into our forces proceed to get shot by rockets, tanks AT and zooks. Even take a handful of rear armor hits and straight up tanking at LEAST 30 combined arms shots. End up with broken guns or almost dead drive back to base repair and do it all over again. (this maybe happened 3 times per game)

I mean guys, i understand that the panther is insanely OP in its ability to pretty much fly across the battlefield one-shot everything then stand in front of 3-4 ATguns and laugh as the shells bounce off and carefully take out all of the guns (because this is how German tanks won the war)


But i honestly have to question the lose for 30 minutes tactic with only 15% map control then play the trump card panther hopeing it will solo an entire army (Which it does 60% of the time because of RNG godism/OP front armor/how the germans won the war)


What do you guys think? Is that a valid strat on the germans part ? Do nothing for the entire game then just panther spam ? Is the panther in need of a goddammed nerf because i don't think any tank should be able to withstand 30 shots from any AT unit. Or is this the new german meta of don't have a overall strategy then tank spam?

Honestly, i see this shit in almost every single game i play now.

Indeed at least the OKW panther is a bit ridiculous with it's nascar blitz and overall better performance compared to the Ostheer panther. Have you tried jacksons and IS-2s? The IS-2 can take quite a bit of beating due to it's high frontal armor while the jackson has very good penetration (especially with AP shells at vet 1) and can take shots from a safe distance.

Considering the game mode is 3v3 or 4v4 it is to be expected that there will be lots of late game tanks. Especially since the fuel caches also benefit the OKW players. Have you considered trying 1v1 games?

Yeah, Im a 1v1 2v2 player just lately 4's because i have convinced others i know to try the game out. I mean in understand its not balanced for 4v4 but holy hell its insane the amount of heavy tank spam... Honestly I think relic should limit the amount of "heavy" tanks per class to avoid that lategame spam because there is absolutely zero depth in just heavy tank spam. If they limited the tank build que it would be more "Support the heavy" then "lets just spam tigers/panthers".

OR... Make shermans not cost 140 fuel (easy 8) because if i was offered the choice to wait an extra 35 fuel for a panther I would everytime, since the panther is equal to 2 e8's at least.



As for 1v1 I run a easy8/ std sherman backed with a jackson to take them out and it works simply using the sherman to tank and jackson to DPS . You know standard stuff...

(1) The Panther can't tank 3-4 AT guns while also taking them out. Even the IS-2 with its multipurpose AP/HE shells can't. Please provide a replay for this claim;
(2) What you might be "constantly seeing" is the Axis having weak early game while trying to stall until they can deploy Panthers/Tigers, which is the usual meta, especially against the stronger early game of the USF;
(3) The sarcastic "how the Germans won the war" remark is really out of place here - the fact that some tank had superior performance in the war doesn't mean the country manufacturing it couldn't have lost that war due to other reasons.

I agree with OP actually, just posted it on the Red Army Strats page asking about it. And he is not exaggerating.
Recently I have been playing games where we dominated the map for over half the game, getting the germans below 100 VPs before they come back with a KT and 2-4 panthers, completely pushing back MULTIPLE IS-2s backed up by AT guns and SU-85s (this is in 2v2s).

The Panther can tank a ridiculous amount, is super fast and has a great main gun with superb penetration. It can even hold off infantry to a certain extent.

basically Axis can have all the good stuff. anything ALlies have that is decent will be called OP or unrealistic.

Guys, ffs. If you have issues with Panthers, dial 1800 IS-2 or 34/85 or Jacksons or E8s or really just massed ZiS/Cons. Mines prevent aggressive Panther play, and skillplanes kill them. The Panther is a strong AT performer but its also filthy expensive and Allied call-ins contain it just fine.

I am constantly seeing this strategy from OS and OKW where the player will get beaten for 25-30 minutes then just mass panthers and drive them into combat recklessly.

Beaten for 25-30 minutes and YET they can mass panthers with reduced fuel income... riight....

If OKW or OST can mass panthers then they werent EVER beaten in the course of the game, in fact it sounds like what would happen if YOU were being beaten for 25-30 minutes.

Even at a even game it takes 20 minutes for the first panther.... do the panthers in your games duplicate or make babies during the next 5 minutes or something?

I agree with OP actually, just posted it on the Red Army Strats page asking about it. And he is not exaggerating.
Recently I have been playing games where we dominated the map for over half the game, getting the germans below 100 VPs before they come back with a KT and 2-4 panthers, completely pushing back MULTIPLE IS-2s backed up by AT guns and SU-85s (this is in 2v2s).

The Panther can tank a ridiculous amount, is super fast and has a great main gun with superb penetration. It can even hold off infantry to a certain extent.

I also agree with OP. I have played several games in 3s or 4s and allies had 3/4th dominance. Than out of left field comes mass tiger/panther/kt or whatever completely pushing and destroying.

I just watched a replay today in fact where the axis played passively and quite poorly actually. When it came down to 50 point they blitzed a massive tank squad in to take out multiple is2s/at guns/ etc... wining the game.

Are we using the same panthers? I always have to micro panthers carefully because if you aren't careful 4 Jackson shots will end one, and a T34 with two Zis guns or two T34s with one Zis gun can easily take them out.

Try playing as OKW and doing the same thing if you think Panthers are a giant I-Win buttom.

Beaten for 25-30 minutes and YET they can mass panthers with reduced fuel income... riight....

If OKW or OST can mass panthers then they werent EVER beaten in the course of the game, in fact it sounds like what would happen if YOU were being beaten for 25-30 minutes.

Even at a even game it takes 20 minutes for the first panther.... do the panthers in your games duplicate or make babies during the next 5 minutes or something?

+1

I can visualize the game OP is talking about only in such way:
1. Axis build chaches early, allies have no.
2. Allies have more infantry, axis can field only minimal amount due to chache investment.
3. Axis are outnoumbered so they lose VPs but they still manage to keep most of their half of territory due to superior micro or better team play.
4. Wehr players tech to t4 so they are left with only infantry in first 20 minutes.
5. Axis have no tanks so allies come with a brilliant idea "lets build more and more AI" I can't even imagine that amount of maxims, shocks, snipers and BAR rifles.
6. Axis don't attack with the first panther but wait until every player gets at least 2 of them. 7. When axis have ~50vps they attack one vp with them and one other with infantry stopping the drain.
8. While attacking axis build additional pios to repair but allies are so unprepared that they can go deep into their territory, allies get massive losses, then panthers return home with the blitz for repairs but there are new ones that can keep ground with infantry.
9. After repairs axis attack last vp with all the tanks, allies call gg and come to the forums.

@OP pls, watch your replay again and look if it wasn't like that. If only half of my points are true, you were hardly outplayed.

^
If Coh2 was designed to not toss every replay per patch i could show you what im talking about. But thats a place and time for another thread.

Game went like this.

> Map lanzerath ambush
> Allies holding 3/4 of the map
> axis have the first line of Vps (4)
> Next line of VPs is constantly contested
> Forested side turns into a stalemate
> All 4 players mostly concentrating on the West side/ mid.

At this point i have a line set up.
1 squad with flame hidden behind a building

3 squads with zooks x2 hidden where they would be right on top of that squad before they saw them

AA halftrack supporting 3 AT guns with a nice spread
1 E8 up front to take the fire
1 Jackson to do the DPS

Solid defense, stopped p4's, blobs everything germans could throw at it for 45 mins. Good macro. Minimal casuatlies

Just a blob of 3 hacktracks with those dammed cannons on them backed by the reinforcements stopped us from going into the base and ending

So we shell and doc call ins on their face for a solid 5 mins trying to break defenses.

"Then the panthers broke free"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9b9UhFe6Eg

5 panther tanks come just Yoloing diretly into our lines,
(2 panthers came to my side the other 3 towards my allies front)

Drive right past my zook squads which start popping shots

All AT guns open up

E8- Jackson tag team it up

> LOL what is this? Defense ha, the panther said as it bounces
> Half the shells shot at it

(Count 5-6 shells from the front)
> "Balanced"

(6 zooks pound into the back)
> if they didn't miss
> "Laughable damage" , K.


Panzer just drives in a circle more or less with zero coordination from any of the player and just take random shots at anything.

> Wreck 1 at gun
> E8
> Jackson

AT nades are tossed, cool no pen. of course why not.

Panzers limp away smoking with easily 2 more shots left into it
out of sheer RNG luck do not die.

> Proceed to repair up and do this exact same thing 2 more times.
> Why is this almost every german strat . Jpg



> Why aren't AT mines on a basic echlon kit yet.


----------------------------------------------------
However
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Then i realize, why even bother playing the game when i can just go with a soviet player use forward HQ, blob right to the closest building in front of their base and then win the game because the axis have NO WAY to take that forward HQ out in a reasonable enough time.
(sure you can shell it, but thats not effective)
(Shitty t2 cars are not an option with zooks)
(If they somehow get close they dont have soviet bomb)
(Too early for call ins to take that thing down)

Games over, allied players will get armor on the field while axis is
stuck dealing with this buidling.

wtf are you talking about??

Tier 3 is useless vs USF , vs wall if AT guns, all slow vehical will pwnged by p47

So tell what ELSE Axis should build to?

All infantry is raped by Katyashas and other indirect fire

Panthers, especially Ost Panthers, are in no ways over-powered or unstoppable. Combined with Panzer Tactician and Vet 1 they can definitely be aggravating but you just have to suck it in and anticipate or adapt to the situation or refuse to change anything about your gameplan and complain.

Panthers are expensive and frankly for that price tag pretty flimsy. In a 4v4 environment where ZiS guns and 57s litter the battlefield there is no reason why you cannot limit the awesome mobility of the Panther with careful mine and AT gun placement.

So you notice this kind of comeback happens often? Well, if you really are beating the Axis back for 25-30 mins then you should definitely have the resources and free space to get some mines planted anywhere and everywhere. Anticipate where the push will come from and put AT guns and soft counter AT infantry nearby...SU-85s and Jacksons need to be deployed intelligently but trust me, tank destroyer map denial is 100x more annoying that Panther smoke/blitz retreats.

Panthers are anything but flimsy and using OKW Panthers in 1v1s is like using a minigun to hunt baby seals.

Best tank the Axis have and at Vet 2 are basically unstoppable with Schreckblob support.

it happens because you just let them sit there and build up instead of trying to cut off their access to resources.

at the very least sprinkle a few mines on the roads so when they do push back theyll have that to deal with.

This was a really close match, should take a look at it. Mind you it was a match with the clan members from The Angry Bears.
2 sov & 2 USF vs 3 ost & 1 okw

http://www.coh2.org/replay/31155/tab-lategame-allies

although we started off bad, ( and then general consensus was -> guys... where better then this..) as you will see in the replay.

I always have to micro panthers carefully because if you aren't careful 4 Jackson shots will end one

You make the assumption that Jacksons can actually penetrate 4 times consistently......which it 98% of the time doesnt. The fact is Allies have AT units which are simply obsolete compared to what the Axis have.

Panthers are not the problem, lack of reliable and decent units to counter them is the problem.

I am constantly seeing this strategy from OS and OKW where the player will get beaten for 25-30 minutes then just mass panthers and drive them into combat recklessly.

For example; in my last 5 games as American (Which I won all 5 3v3/4v4.)the German players got completely slaughtered/outplayed for the entire match until they where down to 50 or 65 so VPs and then they would just line charge with 2-3 panthers per player into our forces proceed to get shot by rockets, tanks AT and zooks. Even take a handful of rear armor hits and straight up tanking at LEAST 30 combined arms shots. End up with broken guns or almost dead drive back to base repair and do it all over again. (this maybe happened 3 times per game)

I mean guys, i understand that the panther is insanely OP in its ability to pretty much fly across the battlefield one-shot everything then stand in front of 3-4 ATguns and laugh as the shells bounce off and carefully take out all of the guns (because this is how German tanks won the war)


But i honestly have to question the lose for 30 minutes tactic with only 15% map control then play the trump card panther hopeing it will solo an entire army (Which it does 60% of the time because of RNG godism/OP front armor/how the germans won the war)


What do you guys think? Is that a valid strat on the germans part ? Do nothing for the entire game then just panther spam ? Is the panther in need of a goddammed nerf because i don't think any tank should be able to withstand 30 shots from any AT unit. Or is this the new german meta of don't have a overall strategy then tank spam?

Honestly, i see this shit in almost every single game i play now.

I don't believe that, what you are saying doesn't make sense. can you provide the replay, please?

Guys, ffs. If you have issues with Panthers, dial 1800 IS-2 or 34/85 or Jacksons or E8s or really just massed ZiS/Cons. Mines prevent aggressive Panther play, and skillplanes kill them. The Panther is a strong AT performer but its also filthy expensive and Allied call-ins contain it just fine.

according to what he says

I mean guys, i understand that the panther is insanely OP in its ability to pretty much fly across the battlefield one-shot everything then stand in front of 3-4 ATguns and laugh as the shells bounce off and carefully take out all of the guns (because this is how German tanks won the war)

Panther can take out everything including massed ATguns you suggested! lol