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Panzer II Luchs

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24 Dec 2014, 23:18 PM
#181
avatar of TensaiOni

Posts: 198



Except what he said was empirically false.

The luchs has a peak dps of 28 and a low of 17

T70 peak dps is 17 with a low of 8.8.

Not to mention that the luchs' peak comes at mid range, whereas the t70's is melee range.


This, combined with the fact that the luchs can take one more shot from an AT gun, shows that there is a slight imba in favor of the luchs when compared to other light tanks.

Numbers don't bullshit, people do.


If you see such anomaly like the Luch's damage graph (with a pretty big spike in the middle range), it's pretty safe to report it here, since it's more likely than not, that it's just some error on the site.

In this case, I'm sorry to say but it's again fault of Relic's inconsistency - it will have to wait until after Christmas for me to fix it though.



Those values are not necessarily correct, they're calculated against vehicles and may not (I am unsure) take spread into account. The T-70 does 40 damage a hit and is very accurate when still, it generally kills a model every 2-4 shots when not moving. Against a Luchs the T-70 will win unless you're facing your rear armour to him.


Graphs on my site don't take into account any AoE damage or scatter.

Saying that, it has to be noted, that T-70 has it's near (so full damage) AoE over 6 times as big as Luchs.

7 Jan 2015, 02:11 AM
#182
avatar of NinjaWJ

Posts: 2070

I feel the luchs is balanced, but i think the real issue are the volk schrecks protecting it that make it tough to kill with your armor.
7 Jan 2015, 02:19 AM
#183
avatar of acosn

Posts: 108 | Subs: 1

I feel the luchs is balanced, but i think the real issue are the volk schrecks protecting it that make it tough to kill with your armor.



Unless your decision to build a light tank hinges on gimmicky, potentially unreliable utility, the Luch is hands down the best light tank in the game.


Better in every way conceivable at dealing with infantry than the T-70 or the M5 Stuart. More HP than any other light tank (and it may as well have identical armor to the M5 or the T70, lets be realistic about what an AT weapon does.) while costing roughly as much as either of the other lights.



Volks are their own problem.
7 Jan 2015, 02:31 AM
#184
avatar of NinjaWJ

Posts: 2070

jump backJump back to quoted post7 Jan 2015, 02:19 AMacosn



Unless your decision to build a light tank hinges on gimmicky, potentially unreliable utility, the Luch is hands down the best light tank in the game.


Better in every way conceivable at dealing with infantry than the T-70 or the M5 Stuart. More HP than any other light tank (and it may as well have identical armor to the M5 or the T70, lets be realistic about what an AT weapon does.) while costing roughly as much as either of the other lights.



Volks are their own problem.


I think the Luchs is so much safer than building a Stuart or t70. These two vehicles have less health and are invalidated by schrecks. Screening your luchs with obers and schrecks basically ean you luchs is untouchable. It also reverses away fast even with engine damage. Yuck!

7 Jan 2015, 03:25 AM
#185
avatar of AssaultPlazma

Posts: 300

I believe its fine its just the stuart just flat out sucks and either all light tanks should have 400 HP like the Luchs or the Luchs itself should be brought down to 320. Personally I prefer the former.

With that being said the stuart needs a serious buff to its AI otherwise problems with the luchs are indirect being its hard to get rifle grenades off on it and being behind shrecks
14 Jan 2015, 10:32 AM
#186
avatar of NEVEC

Posts: 708 | Subs: 1

All OKW players vote it's OK. Sierra and Lolcake vote underperfoming.

HP reduced to 340 - 320.
14 Jan 2015, 11:06 AM
#187
avatar of ElSlayer

Posts: 1605 | Subs: 1


[...]
It also reverses away fast even with engine damage. Yuck!

The most annoying part. Engine-damaged Luchs got away from me many times after getting shot by AT gun twice.
14 Jan 2015, 11:55 AM
#188
avatar of pussyking
Donator 11

Posts: 551

I think Luchs is too durable for its tier. Normally it should go down to 3 AT nades
14 Jan 2015, 12:45 PM
#189
avatar of TheMachine
Senior Caster Badge

Posts: 875 | Subs: 6

The crazy damage and burst aside, I see no reason why the Panzer II needs 3 shots to be taken out by an AT gun whilst the Stuart and T-70 only require two shots, bearing in mind that the Ziss Guns fire slower than Paks. It's basically uncounterable with anything other than a fast Sherman/Stuart or T-34/T-70 so if you don't have one on the field by the time it shows up you're pretty much going to lose the entire map until you do. It wouldn't be as much of a problem is Bazookas weren't as awful as they are, or if Soviets actually had some form of infantry based AT which they don't. Even then, you can't go Bazookas because immediately after the PII Obersoldaten show up and decimate all your infantry unless you have dual bars.

Where as only the Stuart and T-70 can be held off with Shreks or Paks/Raketins since it only takes two shots to kill them. They also generally start getting very safe and hard to kill once the Shrek Blobs come online.

I think the PII needs it's health brought in line with all the other light tanks, and/or Bazookas and PTRS need a very large buff.
14 Jan 2015, 13:11 PM
#191
avatar of Aradan

Posts: 1003

jump backJump back to quoted post14 Jan 2015, 12:50 PMPorygon
Translation:



36% play Allies
60% play Axis
4% OKW trolls

;)
14 Jan 2015, 16:25 PM
#192
avatar of NEVEC

Posts: 708 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post14 Jan 2015, 12:50 PMPorygon
Translation:



Porygon voted underperfoming. Picture lies.
14 Jan 2015, 17:24 PM
#193
avatar of Porygon

Posts: 2779

jump backJump back to quoted post14 Jan 2015, 16:25 PMNEVEC


Porygon voted underperfoming. Picture lies.


L2Read? :loco:
14 Jan 2015, 17:49 PM
#194
avatar of JohnnyB

Posts: 2396 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post14 Jan 2015, 17:24 PMPorygon


L2Read? :loco:


No man, you didn't understand. He just called you ... well, that word written with red color.
15 Jan 2015, 03:32 AM
#195
avatar of Nuclear Arbitor
Patrion 28

Posts: 2470

The crazy damage and burst aside, I see no reason why the Panzer II needs 3 shots to be taken out by an AT gun whilst the Stuart and T-70 only require two shots, bearing in mind that the Ziss Guns fire slower than Paks. It's basically uncounterable with anything other than a fast Sherman/Stuart or T-34/T-70 so if you don't have one on the field by the time it shows up you're pretty much going to lose the entire map until you do. It wouldn't be as much of a problem is Bazookas weren't as awful as they are, or if Soviets actually had some form of infantry based AT which they don't. Even then, you can't go Bazookas because immediately after the PII Obersoldaten show up and decimate all your infantry unless you have dual bars.

Where as only the Stuart and T-70 can be held off with Shreks or Paks/Raketins since it only takes two shots to kill them. They also generally start getting very safe and hard to kill once the Shrek Blobs come online.

I think the PII needs it's health brought in line with all the other light tanks, and/or Bazookas and PTRS need a very large buff.


soviets have a much easier time than USF though. USF is fucking screwed until jacksons come out, although you can manage the Lusch (while bleeding horribly) with 2-4 bazookas and a lot of care.

and, for those who use one of the two doctrines, the M-42 is actually great against the lusch and pretty good at sniping infantry. try not to get more than 1 though.
15 Jan 2015, 06:35 AM
#196
avatar of ZombiFrancis

Posts: 2742

I think the Luchs performs well theoretically. It's seven round burst is what typically pushes it past the point of effectiveness and into ridiculousness.

If it's burst were reduced to, say, 4, but the cooldown between bursts reduced so that the shots fired per minute were the same, the Luchs performance would be a better fit.

Right now it can deal so much damage all at once that it tips the scales before anyone can react. Look at the M8 Greyhound for another case. The vehicle itself kind of sucks at everything, but its canister shot is arguably one of the most powerful abilities the USF has at its disposal. (It is easily considered OP.) This is because it's a single shot that essentially wipes one infantry squad without any effective chance to react or counter.
15 Jan 2015, 06:49 AM
#197
avatar of AchtAchter

Posts: 1604 | Subs: 3

I think the Luchs performs well theoretically. It's seven round burst is what typically pushes it past the point of effectiveness and into ridiculousness.

If it's burst were reduced to, say, 4, but the cooldown between bursts reduced so that the shots fired per minute were the same, the Luchs performance would be a better fit.

Right now it can deal so much damage all at once that it tips the scales before anyone can react. Look at the M8 Greyhound for another case. The vehicle itself kind of sucks at everything, but its canister shot is arguably one of the most powerful abilities the USF has at its disposal. (It is easily considered OP.) This is because it's a single shot that essentially wipes one infantry squad without any effective chance to react or counter.


Don't compare the greyhound with the luchs. Luchs should be compared with t70 and stuart.
The Luchs does not one shot full health squads, so you can react perfectly when engaging one.
15 Jan 2015, 06:51 AM
#198
avatar of Australian Magic

Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2



Don't compare the greyhound with the luchs. Luchs should be compared with t70 and stuart.
The Luchs does not one shot full health squads, so you can react perfectly when engaging one.


You mean "retreat" and wait for Luchs to wipe you on the retreat path?
15 Jan 2015, 07:14 AM
#199
avatar of braciszek

Posts: 2053

Dont compare the stuart with anything. It does not perform whatsoever. It just... Cant do anything before it dies.
15 Jan 2015, 07:23 AM
#200
avatar of Nuclear Arbitor
Patrion 28

Posts: 2470

the lusch has both high burst damage and high dps. as long as it has the same health and does the same dps it's going to be OP because it'll still kill units with impunity and wipe them on retreat.
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