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IS2 since rework to at nade pen is now op

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minimitmit
19 Dec 2014, 13:32 PM
#41
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Posts: 36

jump backJump back to quoted post19 Dec 2014, 12:12 PMHighfiveeeee
IMO a tiger won't win against an IS2 atm.
But that could be wrong and is only my experience.


It loses of course. There was a thread where tanks were put against other tanks and Tiger lost this matchup pretty badly. Who can do the average ttk math? I could but do not have the right stats. Coh2stats seems outdated. Furthermore the Main Problem is the is2 with combined arms vs Tiger with combined arms. Here the extra armor is even More significant and tips the battle.
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The_rEd_bEar
19 Dec 2014, 13:52 PM
#42
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Posts: 760

the is2 is op? Now I have almost seen it all, its like coh2 is full of scrubs who can't play the game at all. Having a hard time penetrating German heaves= historical accuracy
Is2? op needs nerf
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MarcoRossolini
19 Dec 2014, 13:55 PM
#43
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Posts: 1042

IS-2 imo is in a good place...

If you're complaining about being unable to pen IS-2s, come over to the Allied side for a change, we're used to it here!
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Katitof
19 Dec 2014, 14:09 PM
#44
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jump backJump back to quoted post19 Dec 2014, 13:52 PMThe_rEd_bEar
its like coh2 is full of scrubs who can't play the game at all. Having a hard time penetrating German heaves= historical accuracy
Is2? op needs nerf


If you will ever have any doubt about that, visit first balance discussion page on official forums and just read thread titles.
jump backJump back to quoted post25 Nov 2015, 11:09 AM$nuffy
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
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Airborne
19 Dec 2014, 14:13 PM
#45
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Posts: 281

IS-2 is fine, it has more armor and penetration than a tiger but a tiger has a better DPS.
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OZtheWiZARD
19 Dec 2014, 14:18 PM
#46
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Posts: 1439

There is nothing wrong with IS-2
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JohnnyB
19 Dec 2014, 14:32 PM
#47
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jump backJump back to quoted post19 Dec 2014, 12:54 PMbroodwarjc
I played a 1v1 game yesterday where 2 Paks and 2 P4s beat my 2 IS-2s. The IS-2s just kept missing, over and over. They took a good number of shots to kill, but their damage dealing is pathetic.

Next time only gonna build 1 IS-2 to take shots and SU-85 to actually hit stuff.


You are correct. I had about same experience. I mean, missing it's one thing, but add into this the fact that it's reloading sooo slow. There you have your almost good for nothing heavy. A Tiger is clearly more sharp.

Anyway, in a combat situation you won't have Tiger alone vs IS2 alone. German tank will be accompained by several AT capable units like PAK40 or schrecks. These, compaired to their soviet counterparts are also more capable. So the difference is not that easy to see if we observe them fighting 1 v 1.

Conclusion: As a Tiger and IS2 user, I declare myself more pleased about Tiger performance.
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broodwarjc
19 Dec 2014, 16:31 PM
#48
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jump backJump back to quoted post19 Dec 2014, 14:32 PMJohnnyB


You are correct. I had about same experience. I mean, missing it's one thing, but add into this the fact that it's reloading sooo slow. There you have your almost good for nothing heavy. A Tiger is clearly more sharp.


JohnnyB and TensaiOni bring up a good point. The problem isn't the IS-2 accuracy, it is the RoF, with such slow shots it just makes the RNG more apparent and gives the illusion that the accuracy is bad.

Overall the IS-2 is fine, it takes the hits and if RNG goes your way it can seem to deal too much damage, but with such a slow RoF it really doesn't deal a lot of hits.

I have lost a Tiger to a head on fight with an IS-2 before and vice-versa. In that match-up it really comes down to RNG.
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elchino7
19 Dec 2014, 18:30 PM
#49
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IS2 is better at AT and the Tiger at AI. Not that hard to undestand.
IS2 has higher chances of defeating a Tiger 1v1, but i would always choose a Pak40 + Tiger rather than a Zis + IS2.

It's way more reliable to kill an AT gun with a Tiger rather than with an IS2.
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.

Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.

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TensaiOni
19 Dec 2014, 18:46 PM
#50
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Posts: 198

jump backJump back to quoted post19 Dec 2014, 13:32 PMminimitmit


It loses of course. There was a thread where tanks were put against other tanks and Tiger lost this matchup pretty badly. Who can do the average ttk math? I could but do not have the right stats. Coh2stats seems outdated. Furthermore the Main Problem is the is2 with combined arms vs Tiger with combined arms. Here the extra armor is even More significant and tips the battle.


Coh2stats isn't outdated - the last patch with balance changes was on 8th December and that's the version that sits on my site.

EDIT: Just because I feel like it, I've simulated the combat between IS-2 and Tiger at close and max range, 1 million times for each range.

Short range:
Tiger wins: 371105
IS-2 wins: 628895
Draws: 0

Max range:
Tiger wins: 469252
IS-2 wins: 530748
Draws: 0
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minimitmit
19 Dec 2014, 20:08 PM
#51
avatar of minimitmit

Posts: 36

jump backJump back to quoted post19 Dec 2014, 18:30 PMelchino7
IS2 is better at AT and the Tiger at AI. Not that hard to undestand.
IS2 has higher chances of defeating a Tiger 1v1, but i would always choose a Pak40 + Tiger rather than a Zis + IS2.

It's way more reliable to kill an AT gun with a Tiger rather than with an IS2.


But you know that PaK has a 4 man squad and a zis a 6 man?
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elchino7
19 Dec 2014, 20:15 PM
#52
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jump backJump back to quoted post19 Dec 2014, 20:08 PMminimitmit


But you know that PaK has a 4 man squad and a zis a 6 man?


Sigh. And the pak40 is better at AT and can get TWP which is great on a big-"slow"- heavy tank. If i push with a Tiger i know that i'm gonna get some models off from the At guns, when rolling with IS2 it's more of a big gamble wether it's gonna hit or not.

My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.

Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.

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minimitmit
19 Dec 2014, 20:26 PM
#53
avatar of minimitmit

Posts: 36

jump backJump back to quoted post19 Dec 2014, 20:15 PMelchino7


Sigh. And the pak40 is better at AT and can get TWP which is great on a big-"slow"- heavy tank. If i push with a Tiger i know that i'm gonna get some models off from the At guns, when rolling with IS2 it's more of a big gamble wether it's gonna hit or not.



TWP costs 40 ammo for a target ground ability. Any half decent player that gets shot by a pak moves his IS and it will not hit.It also has a higher aim time than the normal shot. IS2 also gets the models off with target ground. Just use it more and it won't target outer models and miss completely. IS2 is not that slow too, same for tiger.
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minimitmit
19 Dec 2014, 20:27 PM
#54
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Posts: 36

Double post pls remove
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HS King
19 Dec 2014, 21:08 PM
#55
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Posts: 331

jump backJump back to quoted post12 Dec 2014, 16:29 PMKatitof
Congratulations, now you know how soviets feel against vet2 P4s, panthers and tigers.

Now that you've got a lesson which says "faust heavy armor from behind and get proper AT" you can go and be a better player.

Unless you believe feeding grenadiers to IS-2 is a valid strat that is.


Im not sure why they let you post on here.. Its nothing like fighting a vet anything panther - they struggle against any infanrty. Unless you could the slightly op MG gunner up top - which only kills one at a time.

IS2 can wipe a squad in one shot and does so regularly. When it doesn't its rare for it to kill less than 3 units.

Tiger can kill a few models at once.. but allied squads are larger and its just so much less dangerous than an IS2 is against the ostheer.

As for p4 - you are kidding right? Its a worse tank than the Sherman which incidentally has a special fire mode that wipes inf units, has 50 cal top gunner, and can self repair.

The only med tank that is worse than the p4 is the t34 standard version.

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Alexzandvar
19 Dec 2014, 21:35 PM
#56
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Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1

I think the reason people are complaining about the accuracy of the IS2 is that it's slow rate of fire means missing can be the difference between life and death.
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gman1211
19 Dec 2014, 23:19 PM
#57
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Posts: 133

Did I seriously just here someone say the p4 is worse then the sherman? holy mother of noobs. And yes the IS-2 is a very good tank, its supposed to be. And what's with people saying Tigers don't murder infantry squads? These things decimate infantry.
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elchino7
20 Dec 2014, 01:08 AM
#58
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jump backJump back to quoted post19 Dec 2014, 20:26 PMminimitmit


TWP costs 40 ammo for a target ground ability. Any half decent player that gets shot by a pak moves his IS and it will not hit.It also has a higher aim time than the normal shot. IS2 also gets the models off with target ground. Just use it more and it won't target outer models and miss completely. IS2 is not that slow too, same for tiger.


Let's recapitulate:
1-I said i prefer a Tiger + Pak rather than IS2 + Zis
A)You replied with the 4/6 model difference.

2-I tell you why i prefer the combo, basically due to the performance of the Pak40 (and the utility of TWP). I don't think you can find someone saying that they prefer the Zis to the Pak for AT duties.
B)You try to underlevel the power of TWP.
"Any half decent skilled player can get a shot on a huge tank when it's on the middle of combat"

3-
--Outer models? On this patch ? I dont think so. :P
--Again, the word we are looking for here is reliable. IS2 accuracy is not great.
--When i said slow i was talking about COH2 heavy speed levels.

By no means i'm saying the IS2 is bad, worst or better than the Tiger. They just have different edges, one is sponge AT and the other one AI.
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.

Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.

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Mr. Someguy
20 Dec 2014, 01:36 AM
#59
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Posts: 4928

I refuse to count TWP as an advantage until they fix it. It has high scatter and a good chance to misfire, which usually leads it to being a waste of munitions unless you target a stopped vehicle on flat terrain, and that's if it doesn't just charge your munitions and begin the cooldown without doing anything.
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