For the future of CoH2

But...it's how Relic translates this into gameplay...

I rewrote my post to better explain my reasoning.

Well now I'm on a new page so I might as well just quote it here.

Jump back to quoted post6 Dec 2014, 23:17 PMMr. Someguy

Imo the British Commonwealth is the last powerhouse country in the war. Of late-war Germany, the USSR, the USA, and the Commonwealth, the latter is the only one not yet portrayed. These armies had solid infantry, solid tanks, solid weaponry. All other examples had either inferior infantry, inferior tanks, inferior weapons, or all of the above. Germany's allies relied on German equipment and/or were never far from German lines, while Japan used extensive fortifications, island-hopping tactics, and their powerful Navy and Air Forces.

Some examples can't even exercise their chief advantage in a game like CoH2. Take the Japan, how are you going to represent the IJA's extensive defense network that gave them the advantage they needed to even stay in the war? When America invaded a Japanese Island, traps were already set everywhere, mines laid everywhere, ambushers were everywhere, and tunnels allowed troops to move unseen and stay safe from months of artillery bombardment.

People might ask for Japan, but nobody says anything about how they will be competitive in 1v1 without also being overpowered in mixed 2v2. The only way would be to segregate the factions or take the ToW route and ban a very large array of powerful units that those factions possess, including medium tanks.

they cant really add more factions, as the game will become a even bigger balance mess than it already is.

Well, if you take a look at Dawn of War 2, that one had 6 factions to play after the second addon, and there you actually had all factions being playable against each and mirror games as well. Balance was very much improvable, but it was better than in CoH2 right now imho.

Dawn of War 1 had even more I think, but I haven't played that game so I don't know how it was there.

Just posting it so you see that Relic has done more factions in the past so it is very possible it will happen again.

Its mainly about faction design. As long as terrible design choices with little foresight arent permanently put into the game... Then it could work.

Im hoping before any new content is added that they would release a good and reasonably priced(AA ruined hope for that) Kursk DLC, with new commander and new units. I think I remember Relic mentioning that it was somewhere in their agenda? - That was mentioned months ago and perhaps on the official forums. Anyways, it would be the first thing worked on if they planned to expand on the Eastern Front.

I would expect more factions within a year of WFA's first mentioning, but if Relic decides to release new factions every year like that, then... Damn. Good luck with balancing.

As for next faction preference, Japan-USMC could be cool, but in order to be balanced, they would have to be alone and separate. I feel like it would hinder the design potential of both if they have to be balanced against factions other than each other. The reason being is that i cant see Japan surviving against ISU's and IS-2's. They never faced those, at least if Japan's forces are designed around the Pacific front. It would be too silly to design a faction based on a real nation and give it the ability to fight enemies it did not fight, since the army is certainly not oriented around fighting an army it did not encounter.

Commonwealth, on the other hand, could be designed with the other four factions. Powerful enough and their army composition fits the game. Italy could be a candidate as well, but i wouldnt know how to start to balance and design their army to survive the current Allied factions.

oh god more than 4 factions scares me the game will then be impossible to balance.

Well, I think we all know this game will never be viable for esports, so why not go for variety and fun over balance?

I don't see why the Italian campaign is impossible. Italian armor wasnt good, so they just had german ones. problem solved. elefants were in italy so there is one heavy call in, and just add tigers too. (havent researched if tigers were in italy, but timeline seems like they might have been) The Elefant that was shipped to the US was recovered in Italy. Commonwealth troops wouldnt have any problems lining up against all the axis factions and just augment the Italian faction with German troops/armor as needed, which is entirely realistic as that's what they did. I do not suspect they will do it, but if I were in the brain storming room it would be my proposal. Just avoid making Brits like vcoh and it will be great. who doesnt want a sherman firefly?

Pacific, on the other hand, doesnt seem like it would work. The war that would fit this game there was entirely infantry based after long naval/air bombardments. Actually the real war was fought at sea and taking the islands was merely to provide a platform for refueling and refitting to get to the next island so ultimately you could have Japanese homeland within reach of the land based bombers. Since this isn't a game suitable to air forces or ships.... I can't see that being viable. As for the ground war, the Japanese tanks were basically WWI models. How in the world could that hold up to a KV-1, let alone anything heavier. They wouldnt stand a chance against shermans. Just imagine a ton of light tanks running around (very slowly at that) getting shredded by jacksons. Not viable except as a standalone which would have to be incompatible with the prior factions. I can't imagine they would go that route. If they were heading down that path.... coh3 seems more likely that an incompatible standalone.

I really hope they flesh out the WFA armies with some more commanders, but I'm sure they will do so. A close air support doctrine for the USF seems likely, at least to my reasoning. There are a bunch of different ways to go with both WFA factions,and I will be happy if/when they do so. Hopefully in another year or so we get something like the above mentioned Italian campaign. I do pray they don't sell it like they did WFA/AA. The separating of the two just seemed peculiar, but I bet that's more to do with Sega than Relic. In any case, any new content is greatly appreciated.

Commonwealth troops wouldnt have any problems lining up against all the axis factions and just augment the Italian faction with German troops/armor as needed, which is entirely realistic as that's what they did.

So... Half the faction... No... The better half of the faction would be a mix of OKW and Ostheer units, which realistically would be the only units people would use unless random Italian units were artifically given firepower in design. -Just with the mark of Italy stamped on them.

Its not impossible to design, but unless you change it so it no longer represents what it is based off of, then Italy will stand no match to the Allies. Thats... Kind of what happened in war... European Italy is an underdog, but Africa Italy did something...

On the other hand, the Commonwealth actually did develop their weapons over time... The British had their own guns, had their own team weapons (with an AT gun the Americans stole), continuously developed their own heavy tank and they developed a medium tank, and they have many recognized spec ops groups as well as a great air force. Granted, they used a few vehicles bought from the US, with the Firefly a fundamental example since they decided they needed a tank to take out heavy armor. But their army composition had their own unique mark on them.

Not to flame, or for you to take offense, but that is why... A decent amount of people look over that form of Italy becoming a faction. Too much is needed to be stolen from the current German factions in order to compete with Allied units, and then it isnt an Italian faction anymore. Itll look unprofessional, and players would rather play the real thing which would most likely play better.

On the list of potential factions, Italy is slightly down the list... In that regard, since I am definitely for some sort of Afrika action if Relic bothered touching that concept.

As a campaign, maybe, but not as a full-fledged faction that is expected to take on USF and SU. Again, this is simply a response to a "what-if", so... Anything's possible.

I'm OK for adding the Commonwealth forces.
For Italy i say this:
1) They have infantry forces
2) They have vehicles and light tanks
3) they have medium tanks and many SPGs
4) They don't have HEAVY TANKS

But what faction doesn't have heavy tanks? The USF at the moment.

This "future" italian faction must be entirely italian, at least for the troops available from the buildings. I made a word page with the ideas for the italian faction.
This italian faction will focus more on rapidity and SPGs, the only tank that italians called "Heavy" (Pesante) weighed only 26 tons (P26/40) they produces only 100 of them and some of them weren't assembled, the heaviest tank that italy designed weighed 30 tons but was only a prototype.
However, i think that italy could join the battle against the other factions.
This is only my opinion.
I'm sure they can.
Omitting balance problems, i don't see why it won't suit good, at least against the british forces, the allied faction which it should be for this possible faction pack.

PS: i remember that Relic said that numbers built doesn't matter, so Italy could have that P26/40 similar to Panzer IV and T-34.
For the SPGs Italy had tanks armed with 75mm, 90mm and 105mm.

I'm OK for adding the Commonwealth forces.
For Italy i say this:
1) They have infantry forces
2) They have vehicles and light tanks
3) they have medium tanks and many SPGs
4) They don't have HEAVY TANKS

But what faction doesn't have heavy tanks? The USF at the moment.

This "future" italian faction must be entirely italian, at least for the troops available from the buildings. I made a word page with the ideas for the italian faction.
This italian faction will focus more on rapidity and SPGs, the only tank that italians called "Heavy" (Pesante) weighed only 26 tons (P26/40) they produces only 100 of them and some of them weren't assembled, the heaviest tank that italy designed weighed 30 tons but was only a prototype.
However, i think that italy could join the battle against the other factions.
This is only my opinion.
I'm sure they can.
Omitting balance problems, i don't see why it won't suit good, at least against the british forces, the allied faction which it should be for this possible faction pack.

PS: i remember that Relic said that numbers built doesn't matter, so Italy could have that P26/40 similar to Panzer IV and T-34.
For the SPGs Italy had tanks armed with 75mm, 90mm and 105mm.

Cheap and spammable land mines would help too I believe.

Cheap and spammable land mines would help too I believe.

As well as 8 reverse gears for the tanks.....

Cheap and spammable land mines would help too I believe.

Despite jokes and other, it won't be so different from the USF, here they say they have tanks similar to T-70, true, but Italy has SPGs stronger than many allied tanks.
To balance their lack of heavy tanks they will have more artillery and SPGs

Despite jokes and other, it won't be so different from the USF, here they say they have tanks similar to T-70, true, but Italy has SPGs stronger than many allied tanks.
To balance their lack of heavy tanks they will have more artillery and SPGs

SPG army sounds good to me. It would be like fighting an army of StuG. Definitely not easy with all the armour piercing capability there.

As well as 8 reverse gears for the tanks.....

Doesn't panther already have that?

Hey i'm trying to be serious for this! Do you want to joke?
I accept!
The Italian Faction:
- can't lose, they join who is winning
- they can survive simply by playing the mandolino, cooking pizza and singing
- they always fight with sunglasses, useless but cool
- they don't have tanks nor weapons

Hey i'm trying to be serious for this! Do you want to joke?
I accept!
The Italian Faction:
- can't lose, they join who is winning
- they can survive simply by playing the mandolino, cooking pizza and singing
- they always fight with sunglasses, useless but cool
- they don't have tanks nor weapons

I ain't joking.

Still when you think about it, the P47 would make short work of the SPGs, so strong infantry will be needed to help them survive.

I ain't joking.

Still when you think about it, the P47 would make short work of the SPGs, so strong infantry will be needed to help them survive.

Everything has its strenghts and weaknesses, the Elefant is very strong but slow, as the King Tiger and the ISU 152.
The other tanks are fast but don't have that strong armour.
You know that aircrafts are very lethal, the P47 is the king of the destruction for the ground troops and vehicles

Japan would be a really interesting faction to add.

There seems to be a lot of units and equipment not being used at the moment on the axis side ( nebels 88's v1 goliath ) along with the design of the americans being light on tanks, plus caliing them westfront armies, no british commanders to support americans I assume there making the british and panzer elite factions.

We also need more air orientated commanders I just not seeing the power of the allies airforces in the late stages of the war. This wold help support the crap arty the americans have and help deal with the german armour.

I want subfractions USSR - Guard

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Italy could be addable with a unit composition similar to USF with only medium tanks but effective ones. Would be a nice mirrored faction for the Axis side.

While it might suffer some of the same woes as USF currently does late game against Heavy armor in team games. It could be just as effective as USF is in 1v1 competitive games.

I don't want British, they already were in coh1 and we don't need them again.

Can i vote for all off them ?