Jagdtiger

And you must be new to the concept of repairs beeing free while losing whole squads or at least several models is not free to reinforce?

First of all, it's not like that. ISU os not wiping squads with every shot. It misses often, and if hit, it's not 100% to lose a full squad.
Secondly, since ISU has HE/AP shells, you know there is ISU on the field and probably it is using HE, you don't charge with inf. Recon, flares etc.. Plenty ways to get knowledge where ISU is atm.
And since HE shells almost cant damage tanks, your pushing with tanks.

Combined arms. Something very unpopular in Axis players community

Jadgtiger completly denies ISU so problem solved. Keep pushing ISU with JT and it won't kill your inf.

First of all, it's not like that. ISU os not wiping squads with every shot. It misses often, and if hit, it's not 100% to lose a full squad.

Funny... it's as if ANY other unit in the game can even come close to doing what the ISU does to infantry...

Secondly, since ISU has HE/AP shells, you know there is ISU on the field and probably it is using HE, you don't charge with inf. Recon, flares etc.. Plenty ways to get knowledge where ISU is atm.
And since HE shells almost cant damage tanks, your pushing with tanks.

Recon, flares etc... none of it available to OKW commanders except for 45 munitions one with short range...

Combined arms. Something very unpopular in Axis players community

By that logic, the pre-nerf Jagdtiger should also not be a problem is it?

Jadgtiger completly denies ISU so problem solved. Keep pushing ISU with JT and it won't kill your inf.

And Jagdtiger costs the soviet equivalent of 435 fuel, not to mention higher cp as well.

Also how do you push something with better spotting? You seem to believe that jagdtiger can blindly roll forward and make it out alive.... with shitty pathing and crew stuns, the Jagdtiger can never afford to be spotted unless the enemy is a retard who throws armor at your jagdtiger in a frontal assault.

Basically, unless dealing with extreme lack of skill, Jagdtiger is not worth it most of the time, but yet is still the only counter to ISU in certain maps. See the flaw here?

Funny... it's as if ANY other unit in the game can even come close to doing what the ISU does to infantry...

King Tiger, Tiger Ace, Brummbar can do very well, Stuka zu fuss.

Recon, flares etc... none of it available to OKW commanders except for 45 munitions one with short range...

Flare and units with higer sight. Once ISU is spotting, arc or view is very narrow so it's easy to spot

By that logic, the pre-nerf Jagdtiger should also not be a problem is it?

I don't get your point...
Problem with JT was it completny denied flanking. I remember Crossing Woods. We started north. I saw Tiger with damaged enginde close to right fuel. It was at the height of little foreston our side of the river. I used Jackon to kill it. Because of enginde damage it should be easy. But NO! Jagtiger which was somewhere around middle VP (no sight on Tiger and Jackons because of woods and little bulding) shooted through everything annihilating my flanking Jackson. Was it right? Was it balanced? Hell no!
I used Guards button, markt target, FAB-50 bombing and 2 ISUs shooting at front armor. We call it combined arms. Yet JT still survived

And Jagdtiger costs the soviet equivalent of 435 fuel, not to mention higher cp as well.

Also how do you push something with better spotting? You seem to believe that jagdtiger can blindly roll forward and make it out alive.... with shitty pathing and crew stuns, the Jagdtiger can never afford to be spotted unless the enemy is a retard who throws armor at your jagdtiger in a frontal assault.

Basically, unless dealing with extreme lack of skill, Jagdtiger is not worth it most of the time, but yet is still the only counter to ISU in certain maps. See the flaw here?

Stop doing math with fuel income. It is how it's designed and nothing to talk about.
How do I push? Well, each shot reveals position so you can counter attack and since you have higher range there is no threat about stun.
Since ISU can't keep Tanks and Inf at distance togehter, you can counter it even if Puma or PzIV. Deal with ZiS first and nothing can stop you. Soviets don't have AT infantry.
Shitty Pathing? Have You played USF and used Jackson?

By that logic, the pre-nerf Jagdtiger should also not be a problem is it?

If only OKW infantry wasn't using terminator armor and plasma bullets and allies, especially soviets had handheld AT able to kill anything above scout car.

And Jagdtiger costs the soviet equivalent of 435 fuel, not to mention higher cp as well.

Cost is not excuse for overpowered unit to stay overpowered.

Also how do you push something with better spotting? You seem to believe that jagdtiger can blindly roll forward and make it out alive.... with shitty pathing and crew stuns, the Jagdtiger can never afford to be spotted unless the enemy is a retard who throws armor at your jagdtiger in a frontal assault.

Basically, unless dealing with extreme lack of skill, Jagdtiger is not worth it most of the time, but yet is still the only counter to ISU in certain maps. See the flaw here?

Smoke, using true sight, abusing the incredibly long reload and rushing with armor after it shots at infantry ect ect.

Also, JT doesn't need to blindly roll forward-it got that range on it for a reason.

And yea, you are right here, extreme lack of skill on OKW players part was one of the reasons why JT was so popular unit before-you didn't even need brain to win the game as long as you could train yourself to sit 2 volks with shrecks, puppchen and 2 obers near it.

Words

Instead of filling the forums 24/7 with arguments, and me counterpointing it, why not 1. go play the game 2. go use the unit. It's a much better way figuring out how bad exactly it is.

In fact that probably goes for everyone out there arguing about it- if you haven't used the Jagdtiger this patch, go and do it. It gives a sense of perspective far more useful than sitting on the forums and arguing theory can possibly do.

If only OKW infantry wasn't using terminator armor and plasma bullets and allies, especially soviets had handheld AT able to kill anything above scout car.

Should go back to the 158034th topic with OKW faction design.

Cost is not excuse for overpowered unit to stay overpowered.

You have terrible issue-spotting skills. Penetrating Shot was overpowered, not the unit itself. The overpowered attribute is gone but counterbalancing factors remain, making it pretty useless in 1v1.

Smoke, using true sight, abusing the incredibly long reload and rushing with armor after it shots at infantry ect ect.

Rushing into zis guns and mines? I've watched many top 10 replays and only time ISU fails is when luftwaffe airstrike or some RNG God decides to takes out both zis guns and guards covering the ISU

Also, JT doesn't need to blindly roll forward-it got that range on it for a reason.

Range doesn't matter when it's blind.

And yea, you are right here, extreme lack of skill on OKW players part was one of the reasons why JT was so popular unit before-you didn't even need brain to win the game as long as you could train yourself to sit 2 volks with shrecks, puppchen and 2 obers near it.

So there's a slow-ass tank with 4 infantry squads and you can't think of a single Katusha to fire on it? That's pretty disappointing. In fact, a single P47 strafe can bring it down to 20% health because it is too slow to dodge the rockets...

Maybe if you spent half the time writing over 3000 posts with baseless claims on the forums on actual ranked matches, you might have a more balanced view of the game.

I feel that ISU-152 and Jagtiger in team games right now (after recent changes) is more of a team play rather than balance problem right now.

Holy gardening pudding... Tell me, how units with 40-70 range can stun unit with 85 range?

Holy gardening pudding... Tell me, how can infantry fight MG when it can suppress infantry?

And this stun is not stunnig really. It stuns for 0,5s?

It's fixed at 5 seconds.... your lies do nothing but reduce your own credibility.

Recently I caught alone JT with my Jackson at Lienne Forest behind this huge building that looks like train station. 3 shots, maybe one DVD damage, rest make stun BUT during this "stuns" JT still was able to reverse behind fuel Point, close to first bunker or flak. So this stun thing is not very punishing if in fact you can move.

Crew shocks immobilize the vehicle and render it unable to fire. For 5 seconds. Again, your made-up stories add nothing to the debate on hand. If you believe there was a bug, then bring a replay to prove it.

Holy gardening pudding... Tell me, how can infantry fight MG when it can suppress infantry?



It's fixed at 5 seconds.... your lies do nothing but reduce your own credibility.




Crew shocks immobilize the vehicle and render it unable to fire. For 5 seconds. Again, your made-up stories add nothing to the debate on hand. If you believe there was a bug, then bring a replay to prove it.

Obers = wiped MG

So tell, does crew shock mechanizm work excatly the samy way for all vehicles?

Because there is something wrong with your theory and Im not liar...

Does not matter. I'm uploading video with stuns on Jadgtiger. It lasts for 3 sec (NOT 5!) and JT is still able to move during it (like I said) but little slower. It's like it's standing for 5sec and doing nothing. Just wait few mins and I will throw this viedo here.

Here you have:
Watch carefuly. I think you can count, so count how long JT is stuned.
Check 31sec. Stunned JT is able to rotate as I command
1:02 Before stun I ordered to move forward -> stun -> JT still could go forward but just slower.
If I say, JT can move while stunned and if I say JT was able to escape from my Jackson, then it's truth.
On the contrary, your 5sec stun...




How the hell Panther with stuned crew could fire?
First few secs.

Instead of filling the forums 24/7 with arguments, and me counterpointing it, why not 1. go play the game 2. go use the unit. It's a much better way figuring out how bad exactly it is.

In fact that probably goes for everyone out there arguing about it- if you haven't used the Jagdtiger this patch, go and do it. It gives a sense of perspective far more useful than sitting on the forums and arguing theory can possibly do.

Quoting to bring some sense here.


@Australian Magic, you were fine till the Brummbar part. It's like someone came here and complained about the Bulldozer.
Theres a difference between wiping squads at 75 range and at 15-25.

Quoting to bring some sense here.


@Australian Magic, you were fine till the Brummbar part. It's like someone came here and complained about the Bulldozer.
Theres a difference between wiping squads at 75 range and at 15-25.

I use Brummbaer very, very rarely, but when I do, most of the time it wipes squads or at least kills 70% models. Maybe I'm just lucky with Brummbar. And range does not matter since Allies can use PTRS or Bazooka.

Correct me if I'm wrong but now when we have 2 types of shells for ISU different scatters for them can be implemented. Just add some scatter on HE shells and get off that poor ISU.

I use Brummbaer very, very rarely, but when I do, most of the time it wipes squads or at least kills 70% models. Maybe I'm just lucky with Brummbar. And range does not matter since Allies can use PTRS or Bazooka.

1- I guess allies don't have paks.
2- A turretless tank which fires in a parabola at 40 range. Yeah, really hard to dodge.

Brummbar is actually pretty good. It sorta is like the m8a1, but with less range. It can wipe squads, and is fairly accurate.

Instead of filling the forums 24/7 with arguments, and me counterpointing it, why not 1. go play the game 2. go use the unit. It's a much better way figuring out how bad exactly it is.

In fact that probably goes for everyone out there arguing about it- if you haven't used the Jagdtiger this patch, go and do it. It gives a sense of perspective far more useful than sitting on the forums and arguing theory can possibly do.

not convinced in any sense.

its a team game weapon now, thats the probably the biggest.

nothing changed except the fact that it cannot hide behind buildings anymore. its still a point and shoot weapon despite the artifical micro they tried to add to it. in terms of tank killing efficiency, its still insanely good.

huge frontal armor values still means frontal attacks are useless. flanking are the only way to deal with it. it has probably the hardest time to fight against p47 strikes and thats about it.

if you are getting flanked by medium tanks or AT GUNS(LOLOLOLOL) despite having the cheapest and best AT infantry, the strongest AI infantry and panzerfusiliers. there's a problem and its not the unit.

\

very interesting. a patch ago, i remember jt getting stunned pretty well and for a good few seconds.

is that a bug or intended change? who knows

Brummbar is actually pretty good. It sorta is like the m8a1, but with less range. It can wipe squads, and is fairly accurate.

ARGH, ARGH, ARGH! Australian, you too. No seriously guys, just stop it with stuff like this, you are hurting my feelings and your reputation. Instead, play some Ostheer 1s and 2s. You will find out the following: Ost T4 is extremely situational to begin with and only really feasible with one doc to begin with, to be precise, Luftwaffe supply. (provided your opponent is remotely up to scratch of course) Secondly: If you get T4 up, you will NEED your fuel for hard AT (Panthers) unless your opponent is a total beginner. Thirdly, the Brummbär has only modest AI potential and is further curtailed by the fact that it has no turret = meaning, unlike Bulldozer you cannot flank AT guns, and cant do shit to armor. You will get more utility out of even a Pwerfer, and that is really saying something.

ARGH, ARGH, ARGH! Australian, you too. No seriously guys, just stop it with stuff like this, you are hurting my feelings and your reputation. Instead, play some Ostheer 1s and 2s. You will find out the following: Ost T4 is extremely situational to begin with and only really feasible with one doc to begin with, to be precise, Luftwaffe supply. (provided your opponent is remotely up to scratch of course) Secondly: If you get T4 up, you will NEED your fuel for hard AT (Panthers) unless your opponent is a total beginner. Thirdly, the Brummbär has only modest AI potential and is further curtailed by the fact that it has no turret = meaning, unlike Bulldozer you cannot flank AT guns, and cant do shit to armor. You will get more utility out of even a Pwerfer, and that is really saying something.

it is a good unit, it is just stuck in a tier that's not that accessible and has a panther in it.

More words

I'm afraid you don't understand my point- I'm not asking for your arguments or your rehearsed theorycrafting. I'm asking you to play OKW and use the Jagdtiger . As much as I don't want to be a member of the Card Police, it's apparent that you haven't so much as played OKW in a large team game, let alone used the unit. Go on do that, not because I want to be snobbish and go "oh you haven't played as much as me, your view is irrelevant" but because it's really the only way to reach an accurate perspective, much more so than shouting on a forum thread could ever do.

It's not about compensating, it's about making it worth calling. Back then JT could counter everything (which was OP) but right now there is no point calling it. I meant it needs more tweaks to be worth investing for. For example, increase the movement speed but reduce the range and price . This way you gotta move it to the front line and risk getting flanked if you want the huge damage. I want it to be interesting, not OP.

No point in the Jagd Tiger or in its commander? Because Fusiliers are reason alone to use that commander. Jagd is now the OKW equivalent of the Elefant in addition to having Pak43 in another commander I think it's fine.