Rifle grenade madness after last big patch

I don't think rifle grenades are that much harder to notice than normal ones, unless shot from out of sight. Sure, you need to be around your troops to notice it, but that goes for other grenades too. Dodge a few riflenades and your opponent has delayed his LMGs or Schrecks by a good time.

I just played several games as Wehrmacht and my Rifle Grenades seemed to barely work. Pretty much every time, when using the hotkey ("E"), the grenade never fired, nor did the animation even begin to start. However when I clicked on the ability to use it, it would actually work sometimes.

Also, I feel their performance is highly varied. Sometimes I shoot them at tightly packed mortar teams in foxholes, only to kill 1 model. Other times I fired it at relatively spread out squads which would result in almost squad wiping the target.

So idk what the deal is with them at the moment. In general, I'd say they are too risky to consider using regularly, at least until they fix them from bugging out and not firing.

Decent players dodge RGs all day, sometimes during a hectic fight the animation and noises can get lost, but besides that other nades do similar damage from what I've seen.

If a Gren squad is at long to mid range you should be keeping an eye out for an RG, no excuses.

Just like if a Con squad or any other squad is close range you watch for molotovs or other nades, this is basic stuff.

i'd like to see you do it consistently.

the degree of error is small, take a hit, it could be a squad wipe, you can dodge 5 of them and take the 6th one and lose that squad. on the average, you are amazing at dodging a good 83%, but it still hurts because you just lost a squad and god fucking forbid if thats a vetted one.

i'd like to see you do it consistently.

the degree of error is small, take a hit, it could be a squad wipe, you can dodge 5 of them and take the 6th one and lose that squad. on the average, you are amazing at dodging a good 83%, but it still hurts because you just lost a squad and god fucking forbid if thats a vetted one.

All grenades are somehow punishing. RN are not wiping squads more consistently than any other nade, seriously, you make it sound like it is an ISU152 shot.

Decent players dodge RGs all day, sometimes during a hectic fight the animation and noises can get lost, but besides that other nades do similar damage from what I've seen.

If a Gren squad is at long to mid range you should be keeping an eye out for an RG, no excuses.

Just like if a Con squad or any other squad is close range you watch for molotovs or other nades, this is basic stuff.

Decent players wipe squads with RG grenades all days, You don't? maybe because you're not that decent.

Argumentation based on Decent players do or not do it is completly bullshit imo.

During a hectic fight, if you're not already microing the squad targeted, when you heard "Grenade", it is already too late. Time to select the squad and click aways to move it to short to dodge it.

Microing two squads, if you can determine what squad is going to be targeted and you probably be able to move it in time.

Microing three or more squads vs a equal force
-1 You don't have all that time to pay attention to that a little model on his knee
-2 if the grenadier squad is in range of your 3 squads, you don't really know which one is targeted.

So the only real option is to hit retreat button, which makes that grenade a bit overpowered for its cost.

Two possibilities to make it more visible if we don't want to decrease his damage power.
- A countdown at the moment the model is on his knee - red as any other so you are prepared
- "Grenade" to be called a the moment the model is on his knee - so you have more time to move your squads.

same mechanics as for any other grenades in the game.

Microing three or more squads vs a equal force
-1 You don't have all that time to pay attention to that a little model on his knee
-2 if the grenadier squad is in range of your 3 squads, you don't really know which one is targeted.

Do a quick scan of the whole fighting area. With this, I've been able to look for anybody who's planning to throw grenades.

Everyone appreciates the new responsiveness on units as well as infantry now utilizing cover properly. But grenades and fuse times were balanced at a time when unit responsiveness was bad and individual models stood further apart

With the last big patch riflenades received a huge indirect buff and overperform now compared to all other grenades.

The new cover mechanic forces models of a unit closer together. A rifle grenade now typically kills 3 to 6 squad members, making a squad wipe not an exceptional occurrence. Even full health squads easily wipe against those.

This is in stark contrast to all other grenades: With the new patch units got so much more responsive. Evading grenades is such an easy feat now. The game being more responsive is obviously a good thing. If you are observing the battlefield and catch the grenade in flight you will be able to avoid most (if not all) damage. Especially grenades with the longer fuse time (everything that is on non-elite units, i think) has gotten ridiculously easy to evade. Only those troops that plaster an area with multiple nades will typically do damage. Grenades with a fuse time will only do damage on immobile weapon squads or when the player does not pay attention and does not evade.

This is obviously not true for rifle grenades. When the riflenade is flying the targeted squad is dead or forced to retreat.

Against mobile infantry, the damage potential of riflenades is literally closer to the Greyhound's canister shot than to other grenades. The canister shot is 50 ammo and on a vehicle, it will typically wipe a squad. But it has to be really close range for that ability. The riflenade is long range and on a cheap unit. It wipes less often. But it sure has the potential to do so. You will literally never wipe a mobile infantry squad with a fused 30 ammo grenade if the player is paying attention to the battlefield.

Normal grenades are just no longer worth it unless facing immobile infantry. If you are playing on a level where people evade grenades the only use fused grenades have are to flush infantry out of green cover or to use it against weapon squads. For 30 munition that is too expensive. While riflenades are far too cheap for their damage.

I propose a shorter fuse time on all grenades as well as a larger area of effect. For Axis as well as Allies. And a damage decrease to riflenades. In the end both abilities should be in line.

Perhaps, another viable, alternate solution would be Relic implementing a mechanic that configures the models in a squad to spread out (but, obviously when separated, this would reduce the overall accuracy/DPS of the combined arms within the said squad). I think calling it something along the lines of "Prioritize Model Spread" would not only reduce the probability of squad wipes, but also negate the demand for reducing the potency of the grenades. What do you folks think?

My biggest problem is how it can be used against weapon teams, I think it's very cheap in that domain.

All grenades are somehow punishing. RN are not wiping squads more consistently than any other nade, seriously, you make it sound like it is an ISU152 shot.

they are however, a low risk, high reward ability, compared to other nades where throwing squads will have to wade through fire to get into range.

plus now with the new cover mechanics, its usually 3-4 model kills per direct hits to squads in cover, it is quite comparable to isu152 since you can control where it lands too.

love it how you guys have this 'deal with it mentality'.

they are however, a low risk, high reward ability, compared to other nades where throwing squads will have to wade through fire to get into range.

plus now with the new cover mechanics, its usually 3-4 model kills per direct hits to squads in cover, it is quite comparable to isu152 since you can control where it lands too.

love it how you guys have this 'deal with it mentality'.

I am with you Wong. On the topic since Rnade is a whipe monster again I bet Precision strike is too...time to spam 82MM!!!

I see absolutely no problem with rifle nades. There is a very distinctive throwing animation followed by that "cling" sound and the target squad yelling "granata". Seriously, that's all you need to dodge.

I see absolutely no problem with rifle nades. There is a very distinctive throwing animation followed by that "cling" sound and the target squad yelling "granata". Seriously, that's all you need to dodge.

If you have a single battle going on at once. And the Granata is actually called before it impacts (sometimes its not).

For the Soviets its pretty easy as long as its not a weapon team. As Americans when I have to move my Ambulance back, then move my light vehicle around. All while trying to flank the LMG of laser death with another squad as well as a battle on the other side of the map. Its hard to identify in a timely fashion in a chaotic battle which model chucked the Grenade before its too late.

A Timer or some sort of indicator on the Gren thats firing or even as suggested a troll face would help. Grens will kneel as will all models and move around during a fight even when they arent going to fire a nade.

It has turned into the Pre Nerf 82MM Precision strike ability. And that was a problem if you recall.

i'd like to see you do it consistently.

Decent players wipe squads with RG grenades all days, You don't? maybe because you're not that decent.

Argumentation based on Decent players do or not do it is completly bullshit imo.

These were rather immature ways to respond to my statement. We need to set some kind of bar for the level of skill and competency we are expecting this game to balanced around we cannot balance it around how a "new" or "bad" player would play. And I do it with a fair amount of consistency but I have seen better players dodge them most of the time, I'm sure you watch streams and tourneys most of the time the RGs are avoided or the player is moving around to much to be a decent target for them in the first place (except weapon crews of course).

Two possibilities to make it more visible if we don't want to decrease his damage power.
- A countdown at the moment the model is on his knee - red as any other so you are prepared
- "Grenade" to be called a the moment the model is on his knee - so you have more time to move your squads.

same mechanics as for any other grenades in the game.

If you have a single battle going on at once. And the Granata is actually called before it impacts (sometimes its not).

For the Soviets its pretty easy as long as its not a weapon team. As Americans when I have to move my Ambulance back, then move my light vehicle around. All while trying to flank the LMG of laser death with another squad as well as a battle on the other side of the map. Its hard to identify in a timely fashion in a chaotic battle which model chucked the Grenade before its too late.

A Timer or some sort of indicator on the Gren thats firing or even as suggested a troll face would help. Grens will kneel as will all models and move around during a fight even when they arent going to fire a nade.

It has turned into the Pre Nerf 82MM Precision strike ability. And that was a problem if you recall.

I could see a short fuse being put on them after they land. As for them being effective against weapon teams, in my granted limited experience this is one of the main uses for grenades in general so I'm not sure why you're surprised that they are effective against them.

These were rather immature ways to respond to my statement. We need to set some kind of bar for the level of skill and competency we are expecting this game to balanced around we cannot balance it around how a "new" or "bad" player would play. And I do it with a fair amount of consistency but I have seen better players dodge them most of the time, I'm sure you watch streams and tourneys most of the time the RGs are avoided or the player is moving around to much to be a decent target for them in the first place (except weapon crews of course).




I could see a short fuse being put on them after they land. As for them being effective against weapon teams, in my granted limited experience this is one of the main uses for grenades in general so I'm not sure why you're surprised that they are effective against them.

i also gave you a scenario where you conveniently avoided.

i assume most players know how to dodge rnades, but being able to dodge them is not the problem here. it is that the new cover changes make rnades too devastating. getting hit by these things are way too devastating and people cant have 100% dodge either. so by spamming rnades enough, you are bound to get a couple of good hits anyways.

combined with the fact that its low risk, fired behind cover, fired at long range, fired while stationary, fired while lmg is still doing full dps, a good hit can kill off 4 men, lmg dps takes out the rest with no time to for the squad react.

All grenades are somehow punishing. RN are not wiping squads more consistently than any other nade, seriously, you make it sound like it is an ISU152 shot.

Absolutely agree.

combined with the fact that its low risk, fired behind cover, fired at long range, fired while stationary, fired while lmg is still doing full dps, a good hit can kill off 4 men, lmg dps takes out the rest with no time to for the squad react.

yeah the way units\ interact with cover do lead to guys bunching up and clipping on top of each other, which often results in squad wipe, that's a huge problem in general IMO. Why did they make this change in the first place I don't remember?