The imbalance between Allied and Axis Infantry Anti-tank

since at vet5 they have recieved accuracy at 52.5%, and at vet0 the schrecks penetrate every allied medium armor with 100% chance, and even at max range they have almost 100% hit chance.
Does that B in your nick mean biased?

No it doesn't. Not if you read all my posts.

Answer: situations in which you gatter a few volk squads with 5 vet level are verry rare in 1v1 or 2v2 for instance. On bigger maps for 3v3 and 4v4, to withdraw and bring again your infantry squads from bases it takes for ever so I don't think having a powerfull infantry is such a big advantage on these mods. Shermans, Easy 8, T34 can scall in veterancy also, you know?

This is completely incorrect. Panzerschrecks have 180-160 Penetration.

the first post on this topic shows that panzerschreck have a 100 percent chance to penetrate all nondoc allied vehicles and virtually all allied medium tanks

the first post on this topic shows that panzerschreck have a 100 percent chance to penetrate all nondoc allied vehicles and virtually all allied medium tanks

Bulldozer and Easy Eight. He didn't say "nondoc" in his post.

No it doesn't. Not if you read all my posts.

Answer: situations in which you gatter a few volk squads with 5 vet level are verry rare in 1v1 or 2v2 for instance. On bigger maps for 3v3 and 4v4, to withdraw and bring again your infantry squads from bases it takes for ever so I don't think having a powerfull infantry is such a big advantage on these mods. Shermans, Easy 8, T34 can scall in veterancy also, you know?

In every 1v1 game that lasts more than 30mins there will be at least 2vet5 volks, because of the incredible accuracy an penetration at max range they just need a few shots to get to vet5, in every single game against OKW that lasted more than 30mins, so the opponent was equaly skilled, a few vet5 volks is really no accident but a rule. And to round all that up the volks just need to A-move, or even worse when paired with übermenschen not even mg´s can stop them, because they will be just shot down at max distance from obers.

Bulldozer and Easy Eight. He didn't say "nondoc" in his post.

Well i said medium tank, and i meant all non doc ones. Because those couls be partialy classified as the heavies from the US. But lets not discuss semantics.

Get some nerf to recieved exp from shreck shots - problem solved?

Get some nerf to recieved exp from shreck shots - problem solved?

Indeed ...

But that's not how the game works. You could try and tweak how much vehicles give experience but that would need a huge overhaul.

PD: i'm still waiting for that Jaigen's replay.

I would love Relic's version of "Band of Brothers" - including Shermans backing up, desperate to get away, as they're being chased across open ground by a German infantry unit armed with panzerschrecks

This is completely incorrect. Panzerschrecks have 180-160 Penetration.

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And allied medium armor have 160 or less armor, E8 and dozer being exceptions.

In every 1v1 game that lasts more than 30mins there will be at least 2vet5 volks

...of course!

Since if a 1v1 takes that long the Allied player has lost allready.
That is exactly the way CoH2 and CoH1 work. The Germans need to stall so the window of opportunity for the Aliies closes. From the 20 min mark on the Allies will have to fight an uphill battle if both players are equally skilled. Wich means they will be loosing automatically unless somthing out of the ordinary happens.
This is also what VCP are for. To give the Allies a chance. If you hold all VCP for about five minutes and two for the rest of the time the game will end befor the Germans overpower the Allies. If you only hold two and never three they get enough time to tech and vet up and the Allies are done.

The current problems are not in the late game (1v1 and 2v2) but in the early and mid game.

While it is possible to gain map controll as US or Sov even complete map controll its hard to capitalise on this. Since there allways is some fuel and ammo income map controll doesn't have the same impact as in CoH1. Schrecks on Volks as primary AT are a problem if a Sherman is rushed. There will be only one at first. The window of opportunity is small so it needs to be used agressive to seize the remaining sectors of the map or the last VCP. In this case three or four upgraded Volks are a very effective deterrent. Allmost nullifing the fact that map controll allowed a medium T4 tank to be rushed... with a T1 unit wich would have been build anyways.

If Schrecks would be less accurate at long range so the Sherman could stay at distance and decimate the squad with HE that would make a huge difference. But now as soon as the Sherman gets into range it will get hit. Forcing it to disengage befor it can inflict meaningfull damage. It doesn't even have enough time to take out a MG or FlakHT so the rifles can come in and deal with the Volks. So the options for combined arms are also severely limited.

But that's not how the game works. You could try and tweak how much vehicles give experience but that would need a huge overhaul.

PD: i'm still waiting for that Jaigen's replay.

they already tweaked at guns received xp, they're definitely open to that

including Shermans backing up, desperate to get away, as they're being chased across open ground by a German infantry unit armed with panzerschrecks

It is a standard tactic for armor to hit the reverse and back up if in range of infantry AT.

The difference is in reality a tank outranges hand held AT by quite a margin and a tank can move conciderable faster backwards than a human can run.

If tanks even today get caught in the danger zone of a tank destroyer team you will see hectic movement. Especially full speed backwards and zick-zacking to be a harder target. Popping smoke, often lots of it and very liberal and not particular discriminate MG use.
Looks quite funny at a distance. In the German army this is informally called Panzerballett (tank bellet).

Since if a 1v1 takes that long the Allied player has lost allready.
That is exactly the way CoH2 and CoH1 work. The Germans need to stall so the window of opportunity for the Aliies closes. From the 20 min mark on the Allies will have to fight an uphill battle if both players are equally skilled. Wich means they will be loosing automatically unless somthing out of the ordinary happens.

That's retarded. So the game was designed to be frustrating for one player in the first half and frustrating for the other playing in the second half?

What you describe is how the game is like at the moment -- but you essentially have no idea whether the early/late game balance was intentionally made this skewed by Relic.

You do not know if Relic want the game to be like this, as they have never said that this was the intended game design.

The more likely case is that they tried to balance the game properly, but didn't succeed, as RTS balance is hard to get right. Especially with asymmetric factions.

If Schrecks would be less accurate at long range so the Sherman could stay at distance and decimate the squad with HE that would make a huge difference. But now as soon as the Sherman gets into range it will get hit. Forcing it to disengage befor it can inflict meaningfull damage. It doesn't even have enough time to take out a MG or FlakHT so the rifles can come in and deal with the Volks. So the options for combined arms are also severely limited.

I completely agree with your whole post. This quoted thing is how it was solved in vCOH, currently no real advantage for USF to hold most map, no mines to fortifie your position or to stall the enemy counterattack and the speed advantage for teching is nullified by OKW having T0 units that effectivly counter everything the USF has.

I completely agree with your whole post. This quoted thing is how it was solved in vCOH, currently no real advantage for USF to hold most map, no mines to fortifie your position or to stall the enemy counterattack and the speed advantage for teching is nullified by OKW having T0 units that effectivly counter everything the USF has.

Eh. You are doing something wrong. 1 Sherman will apply a constant manpower bleed on Volks. 2 Shermans waltz over them. Especially since the grouping change Sherman HE has very real 1 shot squadwipe potential and it requires a good deal of mismicro to lose a Sherman to Schrecks, no offence.

What you describe is how the game is like at the moment -- but you essentially have no idea whether the early/late game balance was intentionally made this skewed by Relic.

Yes I do know this.
CoH1 works this way and this concept has not been changed for CoH2. This it the asymetrical balance wich is often cited. This is the basic concept of CoH and what makes it different to other RTS games. Its also what makes it so difficult to balance.

If you don't like that you really should not wast your time with it. Even if the current balance problems are solved this will not be changed. It will work as intended in contrast to now where it doesn't.

The game isn't frustrating its challenging. But not for one but both. Only in different ways. The Germans start loosing and need to hang on to a small part of the map and one VCP to win. The Allies start winning and will loose over time unless they seize all VCP. That doesn't mean one is easier or more frustrating than the other. The roles are pre defined but not how you fill it out. You also are free to play the faction wich has a style you like.
If it gets frustrating there is nothing that prevents you from calling gg and end the game right there. Nobody forces you to play on even though you know you can't win anymore.
With CoH a longer game is not automatically a better one. Part of the concept is a average game length in the 20-30 minute range. Wich from my point of view is part of the appeal.

Currently if a game goes on for 20 minuts and the Germans hit max veterancy for their starting units and roll out heavy armor you might as well call it a day. Unless the tickers are really in your favour and you have an ISU chances are if you couldn't win it in the past 20 minutes this won't change in the next 10.

they already tweaked at guns received xp, they're definitely open to that

But that's completely different. Let me clarify.

AT guns: they increased the amount of xp required to vet. They didn't change how much xp they gave to other units.

Now, let's go with volks.

Volks:
-if you increase the amount of xp required to vet, thats would be a huge nerf since you can't just depend on them getting shrecks and fighting vehicles in order to gain veterancy.
-if you decrease the amount of xp vehicles gave, you are just altering the whole ecosystem.

You are doing something wrong. 1 Sherman will apply a constant manpower bleed on Volks. 2 Shermans waltz over them. Especially since the grouping change Sherman HE has very real 1 shot squadwipe potential and it requires a good deal of mismicro to lose a Sherman to Schrecks, no offence.

None taken. It is absolutely possible that I do something wrong. Actually I think its likely. I don't play as much as I would like for lack of time. On top of that I have a bad tendency to play CoH2 like I did in CoH1 wich I played a lot.

The thing is two Shermans are not an option in this scenario.
What I do is the CoH1 like vehicle rush if I gained map controll early on. Often I even managed compete map controll with the OKW player only holding one or two sectors outside his base. I can't go in further since he diggs in, has short retreat ways and possibly suression weapons.
So I rush a Sherman to punch a hole in the defense for my rifles.
My experience is if there are three or more Volks with Schrecks my Sherman is not up to the task. Even if it bleeds manpower there is no shock value. The Sherman closes in takes hit goes down to half health or so and I have to disengage or risk loosing it. After I repair it the shock value is gone. The opponent knows there is a Sherman around and will bring more AT. If I wait for a second Sherman chances are the Volks will be supported by Raks and possibly a Puma. Wich more or less neutralises their offensive power. So I am in the defensive now wich is not a good thing for the US to be in.

This is why I stopped going for a M4 rush in 1v1 and either bring a Scott or no vehicles at all until I anticipate a need for M36.

Compared to CoH1 where an M8 rush or M4 rush was a powerfull tactic with conciderable shock value this is not the case anymore. The main difference I can see is that in CoH1 the Germans (WH and PE) needed to build special units to counter it. They cound't with T1 basic infantry. Schrecks were less accurate at range and there was no global fuel and muni income.

Yes I do know this.
CoH1 works this way and this concept has not been changed for CoH2. This it the asymetrical balance wich is often cited. This is the basic concept of CoH and what makes it different to other RTS games. Its also what makes it so difficult to balance.

If you don't like that you really should not wast your time with it. Even if the current balance problems are solved this will not be changed. It will work as intended in contrast to now where it doesn't.

The game isn't frustrating its challenging. But not for one but both. Only in different ways. The Germans start loosing and need to hang on to a small part of the map and one VCP to win. The Allies start winning and will loose over time unless they seize all VCP. That doesn't mean one is easier or more frustrating than the other. The roles are pre defined but not how you fill it out. You also are free to play the faction wich has a style you like.
If it gets frustrating there is nothing that prevents you from calling gg and end the game right there. Nobody forces you to play on even though you know you can't win anymore.
With CoH a longer game is not automatically a better one. Part of the concept is a average game length in the 20-30 minute range. Wich from my point of view is part of the appeal.

Currently if a game goes on for 20 minuts and the Germans hit max veterancy for their starting units and roll out heavy armor you might as well call it a day. Unless the tickers are really in your favour and you have an ISU chances are if you couldn't win it in the past 20 minutes this won't change in the next 10.

Coh1 =/= Coh2