JU-87 Strafe shredding tanks.

I'd be happy with the JU87 if it weren't present in Lightning War- as it stands, doctrines without game-changing call-ins need some something special to even be considered (like Luftwaffe Support and CAS doctrines). It would definitely make more people consider Jaeger Infantry and Blitzkrieg, both of which were just about completely unused before the 37mm strafe overbuff and will certainly be completely unused after the probable nerf hits.

this is a little strong as me and my bro were testing it. sov t3 AA will not kill this faster then it will die 17/19 times. and this thing shredd like hell vs any armor the sov bring. even heavies don't deflect these 30mm shells much. its better then the p47 imo. but I think that relic needs to test this JU-87 a little bit its to accurate to me

I have no problem with effectiveness of JU-87. I have a problem that it comes with a Tiger.
Imagine doctrine with Pershing and P-47.... The flame would blow up this forum.

If commander has super AT ability it should not have heavy tank.

from western armies release:

The aircraft and anti-aircraft mechanics in the expansion, could you go into more detail?



Quinn: In the original CoH aircraft were not very counterable. Every once in a while you’d get a lucky shot off before it dropped its payload. What we wanted to do with the aircraft in CoH was give them a bit of a presence on the battlefield in terms of loitering so they’ll often find a spot on the battlefield and circle and look for available targets and it gives you the opportunity to cover parts of the battlefield with various kinds of anti-aircraft weapons to give yourself some protection from loitering aircraft until you can actually knock them down.

So there’s a little more strategy to using them, anti-aircraft targets become viable before you call in your airplanes – you want to knock out flak trucks and things like that, and also you give them player being attacked the opportunity to move anti-aircraft units in to counter the airplane so there’s a little bit of a window there where there’s a little bit of counterplay that can happen. So that was our approach to it because we couldn’t really do controllable aircraft – they’re too fast, too high up and if you make them controllable they fly around like little kites and they don’t feel scary or powerful they’re sorta like ‘Bhrruhmmmm” (lawnmower-esque sound) and that’s not really that appealing



Certainly when I started out in CoH I found some of the activatable abilities like the artillery confusing and alarming so it makes me happy that there’s at least a degree of counterplay possible now to the aircraft part at least.



Quinn: You actually sorta hit the nail on the head there – some stuff is designed to confuse and alarm you much like real artillery would have done, y’know it definitely gets the tension up.



I presume that all of the armies will have mobile anti-aicraft of some kind?



Quinn: That’s usually a good prediction.

http://www.relicnews.com/articles/relicnews-interviews-relic-company-of-heroes-the-western-front-armies/#gameplay

P47s broken with their vision and they very often shoot beyond their range

Now that you mention it, i've used it a few times this patch, and the strafe is pretty badass. Really useful vs those Jacksons and ISU's.

I don't particularly like these commander air strafe abilities in general from a game design point of view though, as the 1st strafe is unavoidable and then it makes an area no go for its duration. Some other strafes are similar.

Its much harder to conter then P-47, due to the planes beeing offmap untill aquiring a target.

And it should be considered, that it should be judged in the light of faction balance. The abiltiy to save or minimize the damage done by it.

Damage would be area denial and the possibility to conter it. And actual damage to the overall strength of the battleforce(Killing a Jackson and afterwards attacking with a Tiger and Stuff against Rifles and AtGuns(If not targeted next) vs hitting a Tiger or P4 and aftwerwards attacking with Shermans and Stuff against Pak40 and stuff.

Looked through to game files to compare the JU-87 strike and P47 strike.

JU-87
-Has a 4 second delay before being called in
-Spends 4.75 seconds maximum firing its weapons for each strafe
-Makes 3 strafes maximum
-Has a loiter radius of 60. Anything that comes into this radius gets attacked
-80 seconds maximum to loiter before the plane leaves
-has an 18 second delay between each strafe
-Is set to attack both vehicles and infantry targets
-does not follow targets, but attacks any that happen to come within the firing cone of the 37mm cannons (has an 8 degree angle firing cone) regardless of whether or not they triggered the attack
-Warning smoke lasts for 5 seconds

weapon data
-has 2 37mm cannons
-each cannon does 120 damage per shot
-has a penetration of 160 at long range and 180 at close range
-If a round deflects off a tank, it still deals 80 damage to the tank
-For each round which deflects, there is a 20% chance of one of the following happening to the tank: Tank cannot shoot for 10 seconds, damaged engine, crew shocked, injured loader
-each cannon fires 38 rounds per strafe maximum, at a rate of 8 rounds per second
-each cannon has a splash damage radius of 1.875, about the same as a panzer IV
-Causes a small amount of suppression to infantry, and can cause infantry to be suppressed


P47 rocket strafe
-Has a 4 second delay before being called in
-Each plane fires rockets for 3 seconds maximum for each strafe
-Has 2 planes, second one arrives after 8 seconds
-Has a loiter radius of 60. Anything that comes into this radius gets attacked
-80 seconds maximum to loiter before the plane leaves
-each aircraft makes 3 strafes maximum
-Has a an 8 second delay minimum before each strafe
-It will only target vehicles
-does not follow targets, but attacks any that happen to come within the firing cone of the rocket launching hardpoints (has an 20 degree angle firing cone) regardless of whether or not they triggered the attack
-Warning smoke lasts for 5 seconds

Weapon info
-Has 2 hardpoints which fire rockets.
-Each rocket does 80 damage
-Rockets have a 420 penetration at short range and 340 penetration at long range
-If a rocket deflects off a tank, it still does 40 damage to the tank
-Each hardpoint fires 3 rockets per strafe, for a total of 6 rockets per strafe
-Each rocket has a splash damage radius of 4.5


They are both pretty deadly, and each has its advantages. But for sheer power and destruction, I would say the JU-87 wins hands down. It also doesnt have to worry much about AA, as the allies dont have as many options as the axis do.

I bet the actual projectile is faster than the rockets too, which is why it can't be dodged.

JU 87 is better on paper, even for the fact that it damages infantry, but I think the rocket strike is fine as it is. And yes, the stuka does not have to worry about AA 100% guaranteed to be on the field.

Ive seen p47 rocket units annihilate infantry and tanks... Wtf u talking about. AND u cant just back away, i lost a unit in base just recently..

Ive seen p47 rocket units annihilate infantry and tanks... Wtf u talking about. AND u cant just back away, i lost a unit in base just recently..

It can, but they have to be in the collateral damage area of the rockets. I meant that the rockets won't target infantry.

if you retreat your tank close by your infantry, the rockets will splash damage on them. The rockets are not actually fired at the infantry, the infantry just happened to be there. I lost my vet3 paras on retreat to ju87 haha.

I think it's one of those abilities that is a little strong in 1v1's, but in 2v2 and higher Axis need it to deal with a 2-3 Jacksons attacking your position, backed by lend lease Shermans or T34-85's, Axis can be easily overwhelmed by sheer weight of numbers and this ability helps a lot.

US late game is great if the player knows how to use Jackons properly, if US player makes a push with his blob of death and 1-2 Jackons it can be very hard to defend without some sort of call in like this one.

The only thing that needs fixing is its damage to everything else, it should only target tanks.

I think it's one of those abilities that is a little strong in 1v1's, but in 2v2 and higher Axis need it to deal with a 2-3 Jacksons attacking your position, backed by lend lease Shermans or T34-85's, Axis can be easily overwhelmed by sheer weight of numbers and this ability helps a lot.

Did you just seriously suggest that Axis needs help in late game during team games?

Medium spam is the only effective lategame option for 3's and 4's
That or isu spam backed up by dual USF rocket strafes and 1919 blobs. as far as the strafe itself...

Well it comes in two useful doctrines one doesn't loiter. tiger I's in teamgames get raped by medium spam hard and gets wrecked by isu's and or mark target.
In lightning war's case its fine. In CAS's case they normally don't use a lot of tanks if any, So its fine as well. not to mention that its a skillshot in CAS's case.

God forbid an anti-tank strafe actually being good vs tanks.

this is a little strong as me and my bro were testing it. sov t3 AA will not kill this faster then it will die 17/19 times.

Soviet T3 AA is a Half-Track with 4 Machineguns on it, not that impressive. It's still the strongest Half-Track in the game, but it's nothing overly amazing. Besides, USF Rocket Strafe will kill either a Flak Half-Track or a Flak Panzer without much issue. And the Flak Panzer is actually a tank, unlike the M5 Half-Track.

Hello internet strangers,

The Angry Bears have juiced this ability to its maximum for an entry into the Cheese Strategy competition. Ever wonder what happens when 4 Stukas are called in at the same time? Download the replay to find out.

Many rawr