Poll: Do Soviets need a major faction redesign?

There seems to be a general consensus that Soviets need a faction redesign of some kind.
However, to my knowledge there's been no proper poll done to see how the community at large feels on the issue.
So here it is.


If you agree that the faction needs a redesign, please place your suggestions for it in this thread.

If not, suggest what else could be done, or your reasoning behind not changing them.

I'll say now that I feel that they need a major redesign.
A faction that has most of its effective units locked in doctrines, as well as having less choice of non-doctrinal units that are also inferior to its opponents is, put simply, a terribly designed faction. That the Soviets have been able to achieve some parity in win ratios in only because of some of the exceptionally abusive or cheesy strategies that they can bring out. If these strategies did not exist, then you would see Soviet's winrate drop through the floor. It's a poorly designed faction facing off against consistently superior enemies and it is a faction that must rely on roughly 3 questionable or OP units (maxims, Snipers and the ISU) to win without a massive disparity in skill amongst opponents.

My suggestions?

Allow Soviets to use all their buildings. Rework most of their doctrines to allow them to have proper infantry. Give them good AT weapons. Give them non-doctrinal infantry able to stand up to their non-doctrinal counter parts. Make Soviets more realistic for 1944, which means giving them non-doctrinal T-34-85s and effective Conscripts (or more accurately, Strelkovy) who can upgrade to have weapons such as DP-28s and effective Anti-tank rifles. I don't intend to make the Soviets OP and I would expect heavy nerfs to cheesy units such as Sniper and ISU, because at the end of the day, a more tactical game, which involves combined arms use of effective units, is more fun than sniper spam to ISU combos.

I'm eager to see your alternative suggestions.

it 100% needs a re-design. T34/85 needs to be non-doctrinal.. this is the main issue with soviets. If you don't pick an ISU/IS2/T34/85 doctrine you've lost the late game by default since SU85's & T34/76's are just lol kills for panther, king tiger, tiger hordes...

Infantry also needs a MASSIVE re-work.. conscripts by mid game start to become useless completely. The second Obersoldatan/Grens with MG34's come out they may aswell just be deleted since they will just be free vet for them.

Penals are wierd, again they become useless at mid/late game and I don't really know what their purpose was to begin with.

I chose the 2nd option but I want to include some buffs. SU-85 is one unit that needs a buff. The 85mm gun could penetrate panther armour reliably at close range. The 85 in this game is scrap.

Soviets need to access their whole army to actually fight better. Having half the army is not the way to fight. Guards need to receive less accuracy and DP get buffed but only get one per squad. I suggest that DP have better dps at long range than grenadier but lower at short range.. Buff their IS-2 accuracy as well. Currently it's junk and can actually bounce off a panther O_o.

Can we give the conscripts some SVTs now? 2 per squad will do.

It needs a total overhaul.

If i were handed the job - i would start with the tiering. 4 buildings, ideally only 2, eh?

Tier 1: M42 AT gun, DSHK MG, Sniper
Tier 2: Zis AT gun, Maxim, Mortar
(M3 moved to HQ with fuel increase & Penals moved to commanders).

Only quick sketchy examples, but immediately, you're getting diversity without reliance on commander. Do the same for tier 3 and 4.

Having to rely on a commander to acquire a rounded army, is counter productive in a DLC environment. There are plenty of example commanders that dont get used because they dont fill out the faction. Make the Soviet faction rounded out, and commanders to add flavour.

Would like to see a non-doctrinal SU-100 that can punch through a King Tiger without struggling too much. SU-85 could be moved to T3 then so it can still be useful as T-34/76 support.

my vote is that soviets are fine. cons are utilty units and do a decent job with it, i dont think they are mainline infantry.. soviets use a mix of utilty and elite infantry to combat axis, which i think is very good diversity.

I would however like to see some armor buff to t34, allowing it to deflect atleast 50% panzershreck and puma shots.

ppshs could me made a feul based global upgrade (70 feul seems ok)

I like the sound of a global PPSh upgrade... it would fit with the Soviets being the close range faction. And the PPShs would allow all units when in close to at least have a chance of being competitive with OKW elites...

My only demand would be a nondoctrinal ai weapon upgrade for cons, like a single (or maybe 2?) dp light machine gun to make them at least a little viable for late game.
Alternativly better buffs at vet 2 and 3.

It needs a total overhaul.

If i were handed the job - i would start with the tiering. 4 buildings, ideally only 2, eh?

Tier 1: M42 AT gun, DSHK MG, Sniper
Tier 2: Zis AT gun, Maxim, Mortar
(M3 moved to HQ with fuel increase & Penals moved to commanders).

Only quick sketchy examples, but immediately, you're getting diversity without reliance on commander. Do the same for tier 3 and 4.

Having to rely on a commander to acquire a rounded army, is counter productive in a DLC environment. There are plenty of example commanders that dont get used because they dont fill out the faction. Make the Soviet faction rounded out, and commanders to add flavour.

only support units? that will only makes thing worse.

I really liked the soviet's design on the Eastern Front mod, very versatile, with a lot of options, lots of weak squads early on and strong units late game.

I really liked the soviet's design on the Eastern Front mod, very versatile, with a lot of options, lots of weak squads early on and strong units late game.

Indeed, and they were just so much more Soviet!

What I would do is make T34s scale A LOT with veterancy, that way you could use them early and be rewarded for preservation but it will prevent you from spamming them.
Like, at vet1 should always win vs P4, at vet3 should trade blows with a Panther.
This is valid for all tanks all factions anyway, preserve your midweight tanks and get vet on them and they will be able to stand up to heavies.

SU-85 is fine except its size(22, compared to stug3(20)/JP4(17), only the Jackson(24!!!) is larger) & front armor(140) makes it very vulnerable to mid-long range shrek shots(100% pen and high accuracy) and Axis tank can either Blitz flank or Blitz away, if you keep Axis tank in front of SU85s then its high ROF(4 sec reload vs Tiger's 5 sec/Panther's 6.25 sec) will make up for its lack of pen.

Other-if Sov needs redesign or not is completely irrelevant as this is something that will never happen outside of community mods, we can at best pray that relic will pull their heads out of their asses and acknowledge faction core problem, which is complete lack of reliability of all tiers except T2 and forced critical dependence on doctrine choices, which limits them to only a couple, while all other factions, thanks to potent and self sufficient core army can take liberty of playing literally any doctrine and still be potent, meanwhile choosing 'wrong' doctrine as soviet pretty much equals to conceding.

Couple that with "its axis therefore it needs to be superior even if it was vastly inferior due to reasons" complex and you've got a faction that is doomed to not being able to fight directly at all and always be forced to use gimmicky strats and units.

I'd rather go with cheaper teching and upgrades to make soviets better for mid-late game (Cons weapon upgrade, SU-85 gun upgrade, T-34/76 --> 85mm gun). Fix the T-70 vs OKW and make partisans, guards and su-76 usefull again. Give penals a clear role.

Katitof pretty much speaks the truth. However its a bit biased
Because if you play soviets properly they are pretty much the strongest faction
right now.

The only thing that i dont like much is that t3/t4 is quite obsolete with call in commanders

I don't see a point of making threads like that cuz Relic won't change core factions, you can have hope for some mod.

Indeed, and they were just so much more Soviet!

We need more red banners!!!!

this suggestion with the new weaponry for sowietów is even a fairly good idea I am having high hopes that refaces will be filled at least a game will be this proposal more more real