Obersoldaten and stuff

If the lmg34 stays at it's current stats. 70mu is way too little. The doctrinal m1919 from USF infantry company is 70mu, that's nerfed from 60mu. There is no comparison. Even 2 m1919 are not as good as lmg34.

Personally, I would be more than ok with Ober performance to be about that of Falls (pretty damn good at all ranges, panzerfaust, smoke nades, bundle nades), and then make Falls a more dedicated anti-infantry squad that can infiltrate behind enemy lines and tear apart defenses.

440mp, done.

and pay more than 60 for laser

If the lmg34 stays at it's current stats. 70mu is way too little. The doctrinal m1919 from USF infantry company is 70mu, that's nerfed from 60mu. There is no comparison. Even 2 m1919 are not as good as lmg34.

Asymmetry between factions, that is why costs aren't equal across all factions.

What if obers had an assault oriented role? Giving them 4xMP44 and no upgrade (besides the doctrinal) they would be like Knight Cross Holders. That would solve the Long range problem, and they would still mantain their deadliness in close-mid quarters.

Guys... KV8's are useless against vehicles. Yes they are awesome anti-infantry tanks but they literally have nothing against vehicles. Why engage infantry against an anti-infantry unit? It's like trying to shoot an ostwind down with Riflemen. Or trying to kill a T34 with PGS with not shreks. Or trying to attack the captain with the Walking Stuka - you get the idea.

I remember when the KV8 was pretty boss at killing infantry. Now I feel Obers do a better job with zero percent of the fuel cost. Specialist roles do not make the unit immune to modification.

Simply put:
A)
-Veterancy bonus are insane
-Getting those bonus is pretty easy in comparison to other units
Therefore
1-Either change high vet bonuses
or
2-Make it so it's harder to get those bonuses (on a similar way but not as harsh as the change to AT guns)

B) On a similar fashion to other units, the DPS is so high that it snipes models too fast. This makes them easy to A move with little risk, when screening with other resilient units (Volks).
1- This is something that has being discussed previously. No real solution. yet.

B) On a similar fashion to other units, the DPS is so high that it snipes models too fast. This makes them easy to A move with little risk,.

Yes this is an issue with LMG Grens as well

I remember when the KV8 was pretty boss at killing infantry. Now I feel Obers do a better job with zero percent of the fuel cost. Specialist roles do not make the unit immune to modification.

That would be all well and good if the KV8 was useless against vehicles (It can change its gun). Sure it can't take on a panther, but it can easily take out a puma (which is an AT vehicle). It's completely off-topic but your argument is flawed because of it. Also, infantry are a lot easier to kill than a tank.

My argument remains. Obers literally have nothing against tanks. Use anti-infantry vehicles (they are the earliest vehicles). I don't think they are 'OP' at the moment. They might be slightly over-performing but OKW don't have much of a non-doctrinal choice for late game AI apart from them.

That would be all well and good if the KV8 was useless against vehicles (It can change its gun). Sure it can't take on a panther, but it can easily take out a puma (which is an AT vehicle). It's completely off-topic but your argument is flawed because of it. Also, infantry are a lot easier to kill than a tank.

My argument remains. Obers literally have nothing against tanks. Use anti-infantry vehicles (they are the earliest vehicles). I don't think they are 'OP' at the moment. They might be slightly over-performing but OKW don't have much of a non-doctrinal choice for late game AI apart from them.

You have to remember that anti-infantry vehicles are generally quite fragile. This combined with OKW Volks having schrecks makes it very difficult to kill these units. Obers generally are supported by other Schreck volks, which means approaching them with anti-infantry vehicles difficult.

For Soviets at leat, it is rather difficult due to their tech structure. Getting the halftrack or T70 takes awhile due to the teching costs of T3. These vehicles also have a very small window of opportunity to work their advantage.

So it is true that there are vehicles that counter infantry that come out fairly early, but the design of the factions (schreck volks, fast puma, soviet tiering) make it tough to field a light vehicle in time to push the obersoldatens out

Asymmetric balance means that some aspects of a faction is going to be more efficient then the other faction. in the case for the OKW they have superior infantry. this is to compensate for their piss poor AT gun fuel penalties and being compromised out of an army of specialist.

No, asymmetrical balance means that different armies have different means of achieving same goal-not better cost effectiveness ratio for uber units. The latter is bad balance.

No, asymmetrical balance means that different armies have different means of achieving same goal-not better cost effectiveness ratio for uber units. The latter is bad balance.

This is so true. Why some people think asymmetical balance means having better units for the same price I don't know.

but OKW has extremely good anti-tank in all their tiers as well as shrecks on their basic squad, while Obers are all the anti-infantry firepower they will ever need.

So you think raketenwerfer is extremely good AT? Just lol. Puma, you think it's an extremely good AT? Let me tell you what it's an extremely good AT: PAk40 is an excellent AT. Panther it's an excellent AT on wheels. American AT gun while using the piercing armor amo. Jackson. Su-85. Those are extremely good AT. What is NOT an extremely good AT is an impotent small gun with an aiming time that takes forever and a ridiculous damage and range, called raketenwerfer. What is NOT an extremely good AT it's a squad of 5 men carrying ONE panzerschreck.

What about Kursk? Where the Soviets absorbed a fierce German push and made a successful counterattack which basically ended all hopes of a major offensive in the USSR. YOu must be a fucking troll.

Maybe you will want to improve your historical knowlledges a little. Here, I give you a hand: The fierce tank battle at Kursk that are you refering to, took place (to be more acurate) at Prokhorovka where two tank army groups - one german and one soviet - surprised each other, and found themselves one next to another in a close quarter battle.
The close quarter equalized (if not advantaged)the soviet chances to win to the germans chances to win. Still, the casualities between russian tanks where higher than those of the germans at the end of the battle.
That particular battle was won by no one, but the fact that soviets could bring the next day a double number of tanks compared to their losses and germans could not replace their casualities, made this battle a soviet victory.
Read the true history, may I recommend you? And forget your dream about soviet superior tactics or trainings. It's just about numbers, and that was a fact.
Fortunatelly, Allied won the war, but that does not means that we should lie ourselves. The best army in the whole world in the most wrong hands. That was wehrmacht's tragedy.

So you think raketenwerfer is extremely good AT? Just lol. Puma, you think it's an extremely good AT? Let me tell you what it's an extremely good AT: PAk40 is an excellent AT. Panther it's an excellent AT on wheels. American AT gun while using the piercing armor amo. Jackson. Su-85. Those are extremely good AT. What is NOT an extremely good AT is an impotent small gun with an aiming time that takes forever and a ridiculous damage and range, called raketenwerfer. What is NOT an extremely good AT it's a squad of 5 men carrying ONE panzerschreck.

volks get shreks

if u think puma is bad AT. ur not using it correctly

You're utterly wrong regarding your history of the German military in WW2. By 1944 which the OKW are based off of, the German military was extremely battle hardened, experienced and had access to a wide array of high tech weapons. My evidence is the countless battles post-Battle of Stalingrad where the Nazi's fended off British, Russian and American troops countless times and inflicted much more casualties on them. Operation Market Garden is a perfect example of the expertise of the Nazi military and how superior training, equipment, tactics and infantry can turn the tide of battle and achieve victory.

Anyways, the Obersoldaten reflect the extremely battle hardened troops that fought in both Western and Eastern Europe. There was no doubt that among the Nazi military in 44' they had troops among their ranks who fought in Western Europe as well as Russia.

Also, for people who are saying Shocks can't beat Obersoldatens, you do realise it requires micro on your part, right? Allied players seem to want the Shocks to function the exact same as the Obersoldatens, but what they don't realise is that CoH2 is an asymmetrical rts game; this means that each unit has certain strengths and weaknesses, and has to be used a certain way in order to utilise it's maximum effectiveness.

And please point me to a battle where the germans fended off a much superior enemy post battle of stalingrad. Where did
these battle hardened troops come from? Most were fresh recruits.

volks get shreks

if u think puma is bad AT. ur not using it correctly

No, I didn't say it's bad AT. Where did I write that? I said it's not extremely good AT. It's an ok unit, that helps you resist against medium armor, but that's all. I use it often, my build with OKW involves T3 first (the Puma building), and i have 4 bulletins related to it (3 related to penetration and one related to reload). I can say that they are relevant only if you stack 2 penetration bulletins at least. Then Puma begins to overpass its "ok" status and becomes somewhat "good".

No, I didn't say it's bad AT. Where did I write that? I said it's not extremely good AT. It's an ok unit, that helps you resist against medium armor, but that's all. I use it often, my build with OKW involves T3 first (the Puma building), and i have 4 bulletins related to it (3 related to penetration and one related to reload). I can say that they are relevant only if you stack 2 penetration bulletins at least. Then Puma begins to overpass its "ok" status and becomes somewhat "good".

The Puma is a great unit!

And please point me to a battle where the germans fended off a much superior enemy post battle of stalingrad. Where did
these battle hardened troops come from? Most were fresh recruits.

Bagration only destroyed army group middle. even so nearly 50% of the german soldiers managed to retreat then their where army group north and south which also had quality soldiers.