How to farm War Spoils

well, most games that let you pay for crystals are crappy f2p mobile games, which shouldnt be a competetor to coh2 in any regard

But they are competitors in the sense that when people look at how best they can get a return on their investment by putting money into a game company, they are an available alternative.

squippy, are you actually defending the war spoils system? I've seen people do some stupid stuff, but the War spoils system is VERY poor - it actually destroyed the previous progression system that gave people the ability to earn a tiger tank call in. Nowadays, you are lucky if you get that after picking up the game. You've given some of the worst commanders (unless your soviet) and expected to make do compared to the monsters you can get now. Look at the USA commanders.

Not in every respect, no. I'm glad they are looking at it. What I'me objecting to is the petulant demand that everything be free and instant, and the equally petulant attribution of motives to Relic. It would, or should, be entirely possible to engage in constructive criticism, but when the conversation is invariably derailed by someone's sense of personal persecution by Relic, it gets in the way.

None of the examples you have given has issues like COH2 has, and all were produced by considerably smaller, less experienced studios than Relic.

Civ5? Really?

Anyway, if you don't like those, how about Magic: The Gathering? That's been following the DLC model since long before there were DLC; it's also notoriously expensive, and equally notorious for demanding you spend megabucks to stay current. More so, IMO, than CoH2 does.

The perspective here of the range of games, or the range of DLC models, the range of business strategies in the gaming world, seems very limited to me indeed.

I miss COH1's fantastic commander trees. They were unique and different and fun.

I don't, not even a tiny little bit. They were boring and repetitive; solved problems, dull as ditchwater. The variety and variability of the commanders system is one of the best changes CoH2 made, IMO.

Bla bla. Relic is finally (i'll admit it's late) releasing a fix to the war spoils, which should rewards players for actually PLAYING the game, and you bot-farming guys are whining like crybabies because of how unfair this is. I mean seriously, i understand why they locked the other thread, you guys are NEVER happy with what you get, spoiled brats.

Wow, you have some serious emotional investment in this.

We won't know till the patch is actually out, but every indication at present is that they haven't fixed anything.

In case you know, war spoils in the first place weren't even a necessity. They could have just given all WFA and Vanilla bulletins to everyone (x1), and let you buy the rest on the shop for real $$. They have to get revenue for their work you know.

Poor Relic, pumping out new commanders largely with existing or easily-created assets, and the big mean player base keeps taking food out of their kids' mouths. They've made more than enough marginally acceptable CoH2 DLC to extend the life cycle without monetizing gameplay-affecting commanders. Christ, get over yourself.

The base game is cheap as f**k.

It is now, because it's three years old, and that's kinda what happens to three-year-old games these days. I fail to see how that justifies anti-consumer practices by the developer and publisher.

But no, it is not enough, the game has to be free to play, AND give everything for free on top of that.

Does that straw-man stand up all by itself?

I'm just tired of greedy people.

You must be pretty critical of exploitative business practices then, huh? :|

This isn't about free and instant, and never has been. It's about having a game that is playable, with a progression system that is great and fun and fair for new players and puts them on a great footing. Nobody said it was about instant gratification. It was about getting a commander, like the rifle commander, to make endgame USA competitive. Even now you have to buy the ranger/pershing commander to have competitive heavy armour. Especially with the nerfs to Jacksons that seem to stack up over and over.

It's Magic the gathering. People LOVE blowing money on that. Doesn't mean COH2 needs to follow the same example. And in COH2's case, it actively drives people away. RTS's have never lent themselves to micro-transactions, and COH2's bold experiment has failed.

I disagree with you strongly on the last point. I loved defensive. And Terror. What was needed was Variety, more trees, still unique. Soviets suffered for so long relying on specific commanders.

This quote quote quote back and forwards is getting us nowhere. I don't think scratchedpaintjob is insistent on instant gratification, he's done a service for the community by allowing people to circumvent a poor system. And this isn't really a thread for complaining about this generations instant gratification loot need.

I insist on the principle again:
What's ultimately worse for the consumer is.
"No farming or else" is worse for the consumer than "..."

This isn't about free and instant, and never has been. It's about having a game that is playable, with a progression system that is great and fun and fair for new players and puts them on a great footing.

The game IS playable. This is precisely the sort of extravagant hyperbole to which I take exception.

Even now you have to buy the ranger/pershing commander to have competitive heavy armour. Especially with the nerfs to Jacksons that seem to stack up over and over.

... and thus we are back to "make all the factions the same". Thanks, but no.

It's Magic the gathering. People LOVE blowing money on that. Doesn't mean COH2 needs to follow the same example.

I didn't say it should; what I said is that extravagant and hyperbolic claims that what Relic is doing is uniquely bad are patently ridiculous; it's at the milder end of paid-for DLC, and not doing anything unreasonable.

And in COH2's case, it actively drives people away. RTS's have never lent themselves to micro-transactions, and COH2's bold experiment has failed.

I'm sure you'll be able to back up that bold claim with evidence, won't you? Because what I see in the concurrent player stats does not suggest any kind of grand exodus.

I disagree with you strongly on the last point.

You're perfectly entitled to. What you're not entitled to do is assert your preference as an absolute truth.

EU4 regularly sells expansion packs, all of which change the gameplay in significant ways, and which would more or less be necessary for engaging with multiplayer

I see your point but EU4 packs currently cost between 15€ (e.g. Mare Nostrum pack) and 2€ (e.g. Native Americans Unit Pack) which either add a lot of new units or actual game features to the game.

Relic on the other hand surely ain't the devil of this industry but 4€ per commander appears quite a bit too much to me, considering that they don't really add new features or many new units. Often a bunch of new commanders are released where many share traits, thus personally I find 4€ per commander overpriced and which made me hesitate till now to buy them. I don't know how many time EU devs spend into balancing their units but new CoH2 commanders have also been repeatetly accused of being overpowered - either for selling reasons or due to a lack of required balancing work and testing. None of it makes Relics policy here really much more likeable.

The main thing I suspect responsible for people farming is apparently the drop system. Relic currently sells COH2 for 30€ (add ons not included) with a drop system, that has been for 3 years, up until we (hopefully) get a better one soon, a farce. I've played this game for years on a casual basis and can count the amount of useful drops I received on 1 hand. Naturally people will feel taken for a ride that way. Which might not be the case if Relic never created this drop system and just focused much more on NOT introducing overpowered commanders. But it's also system intended to reward people for playing and thus keep the customers interested to further invest their time into the game - thus it's not 100% altruistic of Relic to give away things for free.


But in the end it's likely up to your personal affection. I play War Thunder, a MMO in which I invested possibly 150€ by now (and plan to invest more) and where single tanks sell for a price as expensive as 40€, nearly the price of an anticipated AAA title and the grind is still obnoxious with them. Is such a vehicle thus worth 40€ not to say a system likeable that requires you to buy multiple of them? Certainly not. But I still do it (well at sales at least) and I don't feel any bad for it despite knowing that I pay for a totally overpriced good. Thus I can absolutely empathize with everyone who criticizes such a system in our forums for being overpriced to the max.

If you want to find a reason to justify your spendings you'll find one. I noticed this in a Warhammer 40k tabletop forum where plastic sells for the price of gold in weight, people have invested thousands of € into their hobby and react very aggressive when you adress the topic if Games Workshop might actually be milking them - a company infamous for this as much as EA is in the electronic gaming industry.

Would I thus agree with a method of bypassing those payments? With W40k people have started to melt their own miniatures. This is definitely hurting business (and if everyone would do it the development of new models would certainly come to a halt) but on the other hand I think it's the overpriced business model of GW that drove those people to look for alternatives in the first place. Satisfied customers (like me in War Thunder) don't do that. And on the other hand I doubt that such people would have had the money to invest it into those miniatures in the first place so it's theoretically no loss for the company - but that's a discussion that's getting somewhat close to the question if piracy is really hurting business as much as e.g. the music industry claims.

I see your point but EU4 packs currently cost between 15€ (e.g. Mare Nostrum pack) and 2€ (e.g. Native Americans Unit Pack) which either add a lot of new units or actual game features to the game.

...

Would I thus agree with a method of bypassing those payments? With W40k people have started to melt their own miniatures. This is definitely hurting business (and if everyone would do it the development of new models would certainly come to a halt) but on the other hand I think it's the overpriced business model of GW that drove those people to look for alternatives in the first place. Satisfied customers (like me in War Thunder) don't do that. And on the other hand I doubt that such people would have had the money to invest it into those miniatures in the first place so it's theoretically no loss for the company - but that's a discussion that's getting somewhat close to the question if piracy is really hurting business as much as e.g. the music industry claims.

In the end it is all about the ratio between € spent / hours of enjoyment. That's probably why i was reacting so agressively: with script farming, you are both sapping the financial income of the game, and your fun playing it.

I do play Warhammer Fantasy, and the amount of time i spend painting / theorycrafting / playing the game makes the investment decent, but i can certainly agree that it drives people away from the game (or dissuade them to actually join it, which is kind of similar). But comparing the price of a full scale army of Warhammer (Fantasy or 40K is the same pricing ~) and the price of CoH2 (even with all the available DLCs unlocked) is a bit far fetched, as coh2 is probably 10 times cheaper.

In the end it is all about the ratio between € spent / hours of enjoyment. That's probably why i was reacting so agressively: with script farming, you are both sapping the financial income of the game, and your fun playing it.

I do play Warhammer Fantasy, and the amount of time i spend painting / theorycrafting / playing the game makes the investment decent, but i can certainly agree that it drives people away from the game (or dissuade them to actually join it, which is kind of similar). But comparing the price of a full scale army of Warhammer (Fantasy or 40K is the same pricing ~) and the price of CoH2 (even with all the available DLCs unlocked) is a bit far fetched, as coh2 is probably 10 times cheaper.

What's Warhammer Fantasy? I only know of 40k and "Age of Sigmar".

I can see the argument for this sort of thing, as it does feel like they've priced commanders purely to be bought during sales.

What's Warhammer Fantasy? I only know of 40k and "Age of Sigmar".

I can see the argument for this sort of thing, as it does feel like they've priced commanders purely to be bought during sales.

Fantasy is Age of Sigmar, also know as Warhammer Battle. The game changed quite a bit since last edition of the rules

What game?

Apologies. I'm still a little bitter about the "rules" leaflet.

Do you play 9th Age or a previous edition like 8th?

Is war spoils farming now available?

What game?

Apologies. I'm still a little bitter about the "rules" leaflet.

Do you play 9th Age or a previous edition like 8th?

I play both actually.

In the end it is all about the ratio between € spent / hours of enjoyment. That's probably why i was reacting so agressively: with script farming, you are both sapping the financial income of the game, and your fun playing it.

I do play Warhammer Fantasy, and the amount of time i spend painting / theorycrafting / playing the game makes the investment decent, but i can certainly agree that it drives people away from the game (or dissuade them to actually join it, which is kind of similar). But comparing the price of a full scale army of Warhammer (Fantasy or 40K is the same pricing ~) and the price of CoH2 (even with all the available DLCs unlocked) is a bit far fetched, as coh2 is probably 10 times cheaper.

im usually at university when farming, therefore iam not losing time playing. but when i play, i enjoy it more, because i have commander diversity

to the second point. i have a medium space marine army, it costed me 150-200 euros. you can spend much more in coh2. just sayin

Is war spoils farming now available?

not for now, sorry

The game IS playable. This is precisely the sort of extravagant hyperbole to which I take exception.

its about the second part of his claim

... and thus we are back to "make all the factions the same". Thanks, but no.

thing is, jackson is imo probably slightly underpowered, therefore there is a need for callins

I didn't say it should; what I said is that extravagant and hyperbolic claims that what Relic is doing is uniquely bad are patently ridiculous; it's at the milder end of paid-for DLC, and not doing anything unreasonable.

milder end?? most games have one or two dlcs, which cost like 15 or 20 bucks each and add a large part to the basegame. selling micrdlcs for severeal hundrer euros is NOWHERE NEAR the milder end

In the end it is all about the ratio between € spent / hours of enjoyment. That's probably why i was reacting so agressively: with script farming, you are both sapping the financial income of the game, and your fun playing it.

That's one way for someone to find a justification for his spending but everyone sane would likely say that spending additional 400 Euros on additional ingame content for a PC game like CoH2 or War Thunder is absurd. Or even "just" 200€ or 100€. Just like investing 1000 Euro+ into a plastic army... or into a Luis Vitton bag... or thousands of dollars into virtual spaceships (Star Citizen) or even going into the cinema for 10€ a ticket + additional 8€ for a coke and some popcorn.

The world is full of expensive, overpriced hobbies just because there are enough people who are willing to pay that much because they can. And there's a large group of people who (rightfully) criticize this kind of overpriced monetarization or try to bypass it because they can't or won't afford it or don't regard the prices nearly as justified. It's a really tough subject with no easy answer and there's equally as many ways to rightfully criticize such a business model as to defend it. I think no side is really 100% right or wrong here.

To get back to Coh2:

Does a game like CoH2 give me any more fun with all it's expensive add-ons than it's 50€ base version or any other 50€ game title such as Red Dead Redemption? Not really. At least not to me.

Is additional content delivered thus still a good thing? - Yeah absolutely. More variety for those who want it is always nice.

Is it necessary to the game or your enjoyment of it? - Not really. We could perfectly live without it and invest our money and sparetime into other good games. If it was a great game even in it's vanilla state it's good enough to me.

Is it still a nice optional little extra if this content is added in a way that you barely can keep up without it via shifting the game balance to the negative for those who don't buy it? - No, that's the point where releasing a game without such content would actually be preferable to a game with such content. We sort of have that with CoH2 which is my other point of my critique (next to the drop system) of the monetarization model we experience.


Regarding Warhammer: That CSM army is really cheap then. I already paid 150 Euro back then just for getting all colors and a few brushes from GW in some kind of Mega Pack. I was fascinated by this hobby since I was 10 or so but never really got into it due to the fact that I barely could afford it. Which was the main reason I switched to IK Warmachine and never regretted it. Much more affordable. Still it's a really expensive hobby and neither really compareable with a PC game (where you have to make the investment into the creation of something once and then can pretty much reproduce and sell it for free) and a not really reasonable investment for people how don't share the fascination.

to the second point. i have a medium space marine army, it costed me 150-200 euros. you can spend much more in coh2. just sayin

Probably bought on ebay. Anyway, SM have always been the poorman's entry into GW. And even 200 euros of brand new SM is quite a small army. We're not talking the same thing.

And let's be real for a sec shall we ? You don't need 100% dlc to play coh2. Base game is 30 euros. You add each faction starter pack 20 euros each * 3 = 90. If you happen to prefer vanilla faction over the DLC ones, you have already 6 of the commanders unlocked and buy 1-3 on the shop, but in this case you don't have to buy the DLC factions starters. It's only a matter of choice (like everything in life), i can tailor you a 1000 euros SM army, but you won't need all of it to play (and enjoy) the game.

It's not the add-ons that bother me but the buyable commanders that have a tendency to be released overpowered.

It reminds me quite to War Thunder where expensive premium tanks get released entirely overpowered and over time are nerfed until they match into the game when you actually could release them either well balanced or rather underpowered in the first place and then balance them to not unnecessarily fuel those P2W accusations all the time.

But I fear that's the principle behind it. To fuel sales. Just like Warhammer releases new rules every few years where you have to buy the (overpriced) rulebooks and armybooks over and over again to be able to play with others in stores with the actual rules. I must say I was surprised that it actually took 5 years in average between those editions (except 6th to 7th was only 2 years) because back then it felt to me like a new edition would be released almost every year

At least now with age of sigmar rules are free Still not the case for 40K, but anyway, i'm more into the fantasy franchise than 40K (always found those SM dull tbh). Not that i find a 80 page book worth 20-30 euros as they were charging them, but that's business, sadly.

Codexes are overpriced right now, yeah. The original prices were reasonable, but it's now far beyond that. I don't expect age of sigmar "rules" to remain free for long though.. as soon as they start creating official tournament rules, I suspect it'll be straight back to high prices..

After all, GW isn't a games company, they're a collectable figures company, as they keep telling their shareholders.

It's definitely possible.