How to farm War Spoils

It's hard to imagine for me that anyone - or even a "large part of the community" - would primarily want to play against the AI considering how boring that is but if that's the case so be it.

For CoH1, Relic said that there player base was roughly evenly split into thirds: 1 played ladder matches, 2 played AI skirmish, and 3 played Campaign only. There was some overlap, of course, but it's a sizable distribution that has to be taken into account.

Whaaa whaaa whaaa moar free stuff plz, that guy is being mean to me since he tells the truth !

You're just greedy, you want all the stuff, with minimum effort. Nothing to add there. Oh and btw, you'd be surprised of how old i am. For all i know, we are agreeing to disagree on the matter. You want to exploit, fine. I'm done with you.

What's next ? Customer is always right ? You're wrong.

You're just greedy, you want all the stuff, with minimum effort.

do you REALLY think that relics dlc policy is fair and okay? give me ONE example of a game with a similar dlc policy and which is regarded as fair by their community....

EU4 regularly sells expansion packs, all of which change the gameplay in significant ways, and which would more or less be necessary for engaging with multiplayer; and they each sell for nearly as much as the base game. They are currently up to 8 such expansions for a 2-year old game. They also sell cosmetic items on top of this.

And while there certainly are a small minority who complain about it, the overwhelming majority IME regard this as a good and positive thing, encouraged by the fact that the company keeps working on its games.

Those of you who are determined to see the negative in everything would undoubtedly claim that Paradox is "milking" it's players and that it's nothing more than "greed"; while most Paradox fans would simply see EU4 as something you subscribe to, rather than buy; and that by their subscription, they are supporting continuing development of a game they enjoy.

Relic is very, very far from the worst offenders in the DLC world, and I regard its policies as perfectly reasonable and even generous.

i quickly googled your example and i would say its off.
the dlcs in eu4 change the game significantly (as you wrote), which most commanders dont, at least after they were gutted. furthermore the total amount of money you need to have everything is far less and there are sales very often (-75% atm!!)

and still quite a bit of people seem to be not happy that they took some things that should have been in the basegame and made them dlc.

why do you think i have to see the negative in everything? i already gave examples for games where i happily spend the money for dlcs....

edit:
another thing. you can play multiplayer and have free access to all dlcs as long as the host has them.....
in coh2 you NEED (or needed) some commanders to be competetive

do you REALLY think that relics dlc policy is fair and okay? give me ONE example of a game with a similar dlc policy and which is regarded as fair by their community....

Hearthstone.

Whaaa whaaa whaaa moar free stuff plz, that guy is being mean to me since he tells the truth !

You're just greedy, you want all the stuff, with minimum effort. Nothing to add there. Oh and btw, you'd be surprised of how old i am. For all i know, we are agreeing to disagree on the matter. You want to exploit, fine. I'm done with you.

What's next ? Customer is always right ? You're wrong.

I guess I really would be surprised regarding the way you act here. Apparently you prefer to stick to your polemics and strawman arguments instead of actually trying to read and comprehent someone's argument who disagrees with you. In any case: Have a nice day!

i quickly googled your example and i would say its off.
the dlcs in eu4 change the game significantly (as you wrote), which most commanders dont, at least after they were gutted. furthermore the total amount of money you need to have everything is far less and there are sales very often (-75% atm!!)

I don't think that you can really say that one is greater than the other. Changes to EU4 are sometime so subtle as to be invisible; at other times they are very obvious. Commanders certainly do change the game significantly; they certainly change the meta regularly.

and still quite a bit of people seem to be not happy that they took some things that should have been in the basegame and made them dlc.

Yes, as I said. But for that issue, let's look at another example: Civilization 5. Civ 5 shipped without significant elements - like religion - that had been major components of Civ 4, only to later add them as DLC. People do claim that some things in EU4 DLC should have been in the base game, but that's a much more tendentious argument than is the case with Civ. In Civ, you could see that previously existing components had been removed, and the base game as sold felt much more shallow than its predecessor.

Another example is Tropico 5 and 5 which, like Civ, dropped significant elements of the predecessor only to add them back in via DLC.

Either way, Paradox enjoys a very loyal, even fanatical fan base, that will reliably buy both DLC and new editions of games. And both regard this as a win-win; the fans know that they are effectively hiring Paradox to keep working on a particular sort of play that they like, and Paradox have the security of an audience they can have confidence in, and don't have to go chasing after the Next Big Thing.

None of this is a bad thing. A subscription model for games is just as reasonable as it was for magazines before the decline of print media. And yet, this is even better than a subscription model because you don't have to commit to a periodic contract, and you don't get completely cut out if you can't or don't want to buy the latest addition... and on top of that, you get the stuff for free just for entertaining yourself.

What the hell is there to complain about?

why do you think i have to see the negative in everything? i already gave examples for games where i happily spend the money for dlcs....

Because you're complaining about getting Free Stuff just for playing a game you enjoy. I mean where else do you get that? Do you get free petrol just for driving?

Besides which, the point I was responding to was the claim that Relic's DLC policy is uniquely bad and uniquely unpopular. This is very far from true.

Im goin off-topic here but its kinda not off topic bcus this is about a commander. Urban assault doctrine. (war spoil)?! Have a look at this replay if you have some spare time. Cheers.

Urban Assault Doctrine

Wow those urban assault panzer grenadiers4 looks crispy... *pun intended

The whole doctrine looks like anti sim city aka anti britts.

I don't think that you can really say that one is greater than the other. Changes to EU4 are sometime so subtle as to be invisible; at other times they are very obvious. Commanders certainly do change the game significantly; they certainly change the meta regularly.



Yes, as I said. But for that issue, let's look at another example: Civilization 5. Civ 5 shipped without significant elements - like religion - that had been major components of Civ 4, only to later add them as DLC. People do claim that some things in EU4 DLC should have been in the base game, but that's a much more tendentious argument than is the case with Civ. In Civ, you could see that previously existing components had been removed, and the base game as sold felt much more shallow than its predecessor.

Another example is Tropico 5 and 5 which, like Civ, dropped significant elements of the predecessor only to add them back in via DLC.

Either way, Paradox enjoys a very loyal, even fanatical fan base, that will reliably buy both DLC and new editions of games. And both regard this as a win-win; the fans know that they are effectively hiring Paradox to keep working on a particular sort of play that they like, and Paradox have the security of an audience they can have confidence in, and don't have to go chasing after the Next Big Thing.

None of this is a bad thing. A subscription model for games is just as reasonable as it was for magazines before the decline of print media. And yet, this is even better than a subscription model because you don't have to commit to a periodic contract, and you don't get completely cut out if you can't or don't want to buy the latest addition... and on top of that, you get the stuff for free just for entertaining yourself.

What the hell is there to complain about?



Because you're complaining about getting Free Stuff just for playing a game you enjoy. I mean where else do you get that? Do you get free petrol just for driving?

Besides which, the point I was responding to was the claim that Relic's DLC policy is uniquely bad and uniquely unpopular. This is very far from true.

Wise words. A lot wiser than everything i could type yesterday once i got on tilt. Thank you.

Wow those urban assault panzer grenadiers4 looks crispy... *pun intended

The whole doctrine looks like anti sim city aka anti britts.

Could be. Tho the wierd thing is this commander has never been releashed? And he seems kind unbalnaced to me. Especially the pgrens upgrade. Not to mention their cost. But they got 3 mp40s instead of mp44.

Could be. Tho the wierd thing is this commander has never been releashed? And he seems kind unbalnaced to me. Especially the pgrens upgrade. Not to mention their cost. But they got 3 mp40s instead of mp44.

And dual flamers. If possible i would also like to use it but yeah it is pretty wierd since i dont remember to see that commander in the market

Hearthstone.

lololol. thnx for the good laugh! hearthstone is a f2p game. and many people complain about it being very grindy and p2w(which it is and which is why i stopped playing it).

so essentially even you agree that coh2 as a not f2p game has the micro dlc policy of a grindy f2p game. lol

I don't think that you can really say that one is greater than the other. Changes to EU4 are sometime so subtle as to be invisible; at other times they are very obvious. Commanders certainly do change the game significantly; they certainly change the meta regularly.

as i already wrote, you can use the dlcs for free when the host has them. that is very fair! and as far i understand, one cannot have an advantage by buying a dlc, so its not p2w. coh2 is very different

Either way, Paradox enjoys a very loyal, even fanatical fan base, that will reliably buy both DLC and new editions of games. And both regard this as a win-win; the fans know that they are effectively hiring Paradox to keep working on a particular sort of play that they like, and Paradox have the security of an audience they can have confidence in, and don't have to go chasing after the Next Big Thing.

well, paradox games are very special and complex (for example hoi3), so its no wonder the fanbase is loyal. the difference in coh2 is, that i (and i think many others) have the feeling that most of the development goes into cashcow commanders instead of optimization, good patches and balance, bugfixes, etc.
i really liked wfa and the brits (and bought them immediately), because there they actually released good content

None of this is a bad thing. A subscription model for games is just as reasonable as it was for magazines before the decline of print media. And yet, this is even better than a subscription model because you don't have to commit to a periodic contract, and you don't get completely cut out if you can't or don't want to buy the latest addition... and on top of that, you get the stuff for free just for entertaining yourself.

this is the case for paradox. join the multiplayer, you are still in. in coh2 your win chances are (in some cases severely) reduced if you dont have bought the micro dlcs

What the hell is there to complain about?

releasing loads of (overpriced, if you compare with EU4) microdlcs, instead of fixing the real problems(balance, optimization, bugs, small playerbase,....)

Because you're complaining about getting Free Stuff just for playing a game you enjoy. I mean where else do you get that? Do you get free petrol just for driving?

im not complaining getting free stuff. i think its clear what iam complaining about...

Besides which, the point I was responding to was the claim that Relic's DLC policy is uniquely bad and uniquely unpopular. This is very far from true.

never said that. but all games that have such a DLC policy are critisized heavily (watch angry joes video on coh2!). some games are harshly critisized for far less (oblivions horse armor, assassins creeds sword, ...)

And dual flamers. If possible i would also like to use it but yeah it is pretty wierd since i dont remember to see that commander in the market

i think it was never on the market and i never got it as a warpoil, so its probably not on the droptable

lololol. thnx for the good laugh! hearthstone is a f2p game. and many people complain about it being very grindy and p2w(which it is and which is why i stopped playing it).

Vermintide. Mordheim. Counter Strike GO. You want more ? I can find more for you. If you feel HS is a P2W game, i can't do anything for you though: your whole life as a gamer must be filled with frustration (this, or you are too poor to afford paying 20 euros for a game you like ?, in which case it contradicts the fact that you are okay with paying power bills to farm for virtual items of a game you don't like and/or play anymore).

vermintide has three dlcs in steam store, 2 are free
mordheim has three dcls for 7€ all in all
iirc counter strike go does not have any weapons for sale, just skins. no p2w

man, you totally lost it when mentioning hearthstone, it was such a ridiculous example of ridiculous thinking...

and to the contrary. many games even today have wonderfull and fair dlcs, whether it is witcher 3 or skyrim or arma 2 or xcom, very, very good games with very good dlcs. then there are many games wihtout any dlcs.

and on a sidenote: i dont have to pay my power bills (and im not living at home)

as i already wrote, you can use the dlcs for free when the host has them. that is very fair! and as far i understand, one cannot have an advantage by buying a dlc, so its not p2w.

As you acknowledge, these games are complex; and so walking into a multiplayer game that relies on, say, changes to the trade system that you know nothing about and have to figure out on the fly, is a good way to get your butt handed to you. So no, it's not nearly as distinct as you suggest.

coh2 is very differentwell, paradox games are very special and complex (for example hoi3), so its no wonder the fanbase is loyal. the difference in coh2 is, that i (and i think many others) have the feeling that most of the development goes into cashcow commanders instead of optimization, good patches and balance, bugfixes, etc.

And the very fact that you call them "cashcow" commanders is where we part company; I think that's ludicrous and absurd. What they really are is CONTENT, exactly the kind of content that can introduce new units. Whereas its predecessor, and indeed most RTS's stick with a single unit roster their entire product lives, CoH2 is set up in such a way that commanders, as modular components, can add new units to play. This is a Good Thing.

And if you want them to keep working on patches on bugfixes, on balance, you WANT them to be able to make a continuing profit from the game, don't you? Because otherwise it is literally not going to be worth their while, and they will just stop support. How would that be a good result?

On top of this, you then go further and impute motive to Relic; you and others imagine that you understand what is going on in their minds. And on the basis of that thing that you have imagined, you then feel outraged and angry. And that is where, IMO, you cross the line from criticism to pathetic crybaby.

im not complaining getting free stuff. i think its clear what iam complaining about...

Yes it is. You're complaining that you don't get all the free stuff immediately.

never said that. but all games that have such a DLC policy are critisized heavily (watch angry joes video on coh2!). some games are harshly critisized for far less (oblivions horse armor, assassins creeds sword, ...)

I have seen Joe's video, and that was made BEFORE commanders were drops in War Spoils,so as far as I'm concerned, that issue has been dealt with. I'm not claiming that all DLC models are good, and I've been critical of them myself; but ever since War Spoils made commanders available for free simply by playing the game, I think everything is basically fine.

Similarly, I think allegations of CoH2 being "P2W" are just as silly. If an imbalance is introduced, as inevitably the case with something so complex, then ongoing support from Relic is precisely what we need to solve the problem. The suggestion that Relic are deliberately introducing overpowered commanders so they can drink the tears of players is just more of the afore-mentioned stuff people imagine.

If you really hate all this stuff then fine: come up with a better idea for how Relic can be encouraged financially to provide ongoing support and content for this game. Because if you can't do that, you're basically arguing that Relic should pull the shutters down on CoH2 and go on to something new which they can sell.

still, the dlcs are for free!

to the second point:
lots of the commanders (especially for vanilla) are just a different set of abilities that were already in the game, with very few exceptions. its a better for he new factions, but not perfect (commandos, air officer, infiltration commandos, same stuff, reskinned. or the railway arty*2)

yes, i want them to make profit, but i doubt that making the hurdle that high for new players is the right approach also seeing the small playerbase

i dont know what is going on in relics mind, but i havent seen anything regarding optimization for a long time and the last couple of patches had some minor or sometimes even major fuckups to the point where it was absurd.

no, i dont want everything for free did you even read my post????
i can only copy what im complaining about:
releasing loads of (overpriced, if you compare with EU4) microdlcs, instead of fixing the real problems(balance, optimization, bugs, small playerbase,....)

tired of stating again and again that i want (and have done so many times in the past) to pay for a good and fair product

no, angry joes video is 6 months old, warspoils are MUCH OLDER. dude, how long do you play this game? have you ever played coh1?

i have farmed for more than 2000 hours and im still not near to all commanders. for somebody who does not have a huge amount of time, warspoils is not the system to get commanders, especially good commanders

yes, new commanders may be unbalanced. but many of them have been totally overpowered in the past and what you hear from the balance devs seems to be that they are not allowed to touch them because of the sales(im not making this up). they KNOW its op. that is clearly p2w. and even if they didnt know, it still would be.

my approach would be this one:
-better optimization and better tutorial
-make soviets and wehrmacht f2p
-give all commanders away for free, get rid of the redundance of many commanders

im fine with relic selling skins and faceplates and that stuff, and with a bigger community due to f2p i thin relic might also earn enough money and more importantly coh2 might become a real esports, which woiuld be really good for relic

The fact that commanders are mix-n-matches of existing abilities is perfectly normal; that's more or less what factions are in most RTS's; slight shifts the need for a resource or cheapness of armour or something like that. This is all perfectly fine.

I don't see that there is any hurdle for new players; for the base game they get a whole bunch of commanders. And on this note, making Wehr and Soviets free is a terrible idea, because that would make Relic even more dependent on DLC sales, and push this into MMO microtransaction hell.

Whether commanders are overpriced is a difficult thing to take a judgement on, given that there are so many games that will let you buy "crystals" or some other rubbish to instantly construct buildings that might otherwise take a day of real time. Even if you went out and bought everything CoH2 I one go, it would not come to as much as many people spend on much shittier games.

Maybe I'mm misremembering the AJ thing, but then I'm content to say I disagree with him. And FYI, I played the original Warcraft and Dune.

As for these calls for optimisation, I agree that would be great, but you have yet to explain what motive Relic has to put in all the necessary work if they have no prospect of generating revenue to pay for it.

well, being a mix of old abilities contradicts the point of new content, that is what i wanted to say. and paying 3€ for that is overpriced imo...

you get some commanders with the base games and faction-dlcs, but in many cases dlc commanders are stronger. every new commander released is a possible "must-buy".

i dont think that they get much revenue from the basegame anymore seeing how many -75% sales there have been. but f2p might introduce A LOT of people to coh2 (its free, i can try it) and it would make the dlc policy more fair ( i didnt pay for this game, so i can support relic by buying some skins...)

well, most games that let you pay for crystals are crappy f2p mobile games, which shouldnt be a competetor to coh2 in any regard

if i would buy everything there is in coh2, i would have to pay 300€ after 2000 hours of farming. a new player would probably spend double. not many people have spent that amount for games at all.

you are definetely wrong with angry joe. when he tried the game, brits were out, ingame-store was out, etc, so much after war spoils.
i dont think he is wrong. the master collection costs 55€ and it does not include one of the many dls commanders...

optimization would be a good way to increase playerbase together with f2p. i mean many russians play games like WoT, because it runs on their toaster. that is probably a bit ?stereotypey?, but i think you get the point

squippy, are you actually defending the war spoils system? I've seen people do some stupid stuff, but the War spoils system is VERY poor - it actually destroyed the previous progression system that gave people the ability to earn a tiger tank call in. Nowadays, you are lucky if you get that after picking up the game. You've given some of the worst commanders (unless your soviet) and expected to make do compared to the monsters you can get now. Look at the USA commanders.

The overall cost of COH2's DLC is astronomical at this point. It's not "micro" transaction, it's a macro transaction. and worst of all it's required for the game to remain competitive. Using examples like Civ V, Vermintide, etc is utterly pointless.

None of the examples you have given has issues like COH2 has, and all were produced by considerably smaller, less experienced studios than Relic.

The fact this thread exists and is so popular should be a testament to a serious error by Relic. And it's only almost two years later that they are finally taking action to fix the "progression" system.

Let us be very clear here - the design intention behind war spoils, to give people DLC for free if they play enough, has failed. Massively. It's driven me and others away from the game. It's called "progression" by Relic, but instead it feels like a slot machine. And I don't like Casinos.

Even worse is when the new commanders bring nothing unique or interesting to the table, and then it's used as an excuse to not change clearly broken older ones (like NKVD) which have been rendered obsolete by changes Relic has made to the game. I miss COH1's fantastic commander trees. They were unique and different and fun. Not the same shit recycled endlessly, and it made for a far better game and balance. All they needed was to add a couple more trees that lined up with the respective army. And we never got that "Customisable Commanders" we wanted.

The fact they are clamping down on War Spoils farming at this point is a joke. Talk about missing the boat/plane/etc.