B-4 Population Problem
7 Oct 2014, 16:39 PM
#1
Posts: 70
Team weapons typically have their own population costs. For example, an ML-20 gun costs 11 and its four crews only take up 4 out of total 15 pop cost. On the contrary, a B-4 gun itself costs nothing and each member of its five crews takes up 3 out of 15. I think this is not intended by developers because 3 pop cost (the highest in game as far as I know) for a single model is ridiculous. You can abuse this fact by killing all the crews yourself right after building a B-4 (a single molotov is enough) and retaking it with conscripts. Thus it is possible to use five B-4 guns with the same upkeep of a single ML-20 gun.
7 Oct 2014, 16:44 PM
#2
Posts: 2053
I thought you can decrew any weapon and replace it with the lowest popcap squad to create low popcap disturbance. This goes with all buildable crewed weapons, not only the B-4. You COULD make crew weapons act as vehicles with a set popcap when captured, but then imagine all the shock/obersoldaten wielding crewed weapons...
7 Oct 2014, 17:02 PM
#3
2 
Posts: 2181
I thought you can decrew any weapon and replace it with the lowest popcap squad to create low popcap disturbance. This goes with all buildable crewed weapons, not only the B-4. You COULD make crew weapons act as vehicles with a set popcap when captured, but then imagine all the shock/obersoldaten wielding crewed weapons...
support weapons already have a pop cost
7 Oct 2014, 17:11 PM
#4
Posts: 2053
support weapons already have a pop cost
...
But for static-built weapons other than the B-4, i thought you could get away with lower popcap by replacing the crew...
7 Oct 2014, 23:11 PM
#5
Posts: 923
You can abuse this fact by killing all the crews yourself right after building a B-4 (a single molotov is enough) and retaking it with conscripts. Thus it is possible to use five B-4 guns with the same upkeep of a single ML-20 gun.
Thus it is possible to use five B-4 guns with the same upkeep of a single ML-20 gun.
Thus it is possible to use five B-4 guns
five B-4 guns
I did not know this... That is half a tonne of HE per fire cycle.
Let me just go spam and see if it is possible to die out of happiness
Relic don't dare touch that shit for atleast a week.
Disclaimer: Posts made while drunk should not count against this poster.
8 Oct 2014, 08:15 AM
#6
Posts: 70
...
But for static-built weapons other than the B-4, i thought you could get away with lower popcap by replacing the crew...
This is B-4's unique problem. All other support weapon crews have a low pop cost, mostly 1, so you cannot reduce the upkeep significantly by replacing the crews. (e.g. Replacing 10.5cm leFH 18 crews by three osttruppen soldiers will decrease the pop by mere 1.5.)
8 Oct 2014, 09:00 AM
#7
Posts: 157
same goes with Maxim. The gun itself cost 3 pop and the crew cost 3. So each men in the maxim squad is 0.5 pop.
Thus, Ostheer or OKW players will never touch it, not only its a 4 men squad it increases the pop cap of the weapon crew
Thus, Ostheer or OKW players will never touch it, not only its a 4 men squad it increases the pop cap of the weapon crew
8 Oct 2014, 09:17 AM
#8
Posts: 70
same goes with Maxim. The gun itself cost 3 pop and the crew cost 3. So each men in the maxim squad is 0.5 pop.
No, each maxim crew costs 1. See http://www.coh2-stats.com/team_weapons
8 Oct 2014, 10:14 AM
#9
Posts: 1605 | Subs: 1
I'm gonna try to abuse this exploit to death.
Thanks for the info!
Thanks for the info!
8 Oct 2014, 11:26 AM
#10
Posts: 379
I think I've heard about this problem ... B-4
8 Oct 2014, 11:54 AM
#11
Posts: 70
I'm gonna try to abuse this exploit to death.
Thanks for the info!
I wanted to stop this abuse
To be honest, I tried this method three times in 2v2 recently, won every game then refrained feeling guilty about it. We normally do not build more than two howitzers even with excess manpower because of the 100 pop cap as we need to maintain sufficient mobile army. Operating five howitzers with only 15 pop is certainly game breaking. In fact, only three vetted B-4s were a death sentence to any German heavy tank.
8 Oct 2014, 16:33 PM
#12
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
I wanted to stop this abuse
To be honest, I tried this method three times in 2v2 recently, won every game then refrained feeling guilty about it. We normally do not build more than two howitzers even with excess manpower because of the 100 pop cap as we need to maintain sufficient mobile army. Operating five howitzers with only 15 pop is certainly game breaking. In fact, only three vetted B-4s were a death sentence to any German heavy tank.
You need people abusing so they actually fix it. It being for a while, but i didn't knew it was SO LOW.
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
9 Oct 2014, 03:21 AM
#13
Posts: 3552 | Subs: 2
Let me just go spam and see if it is possible to die out of happiness
Relic don't dare touch that shit for atleast a week.
Your shit will be safe
I have it good authority that Relic do not go into the woods
Resident Soviet Whiner and Grand Master Bias Jedi; General Secretary of the Soviet Whine Hydra Collective; Axis Hating Sheeple; Allied Butt Buddy! Collect Them All!
Also the African Branch of TAB Bulletins
PS: The Italian Army fought with courage and skill
Also the African Branch of TAB Bulletins
PS: The Italian Army fought with courage and skill
9 Oct 2014, 03:52 AM
#14
Posts: 365
it was hard to read. but the gist of what i got was that the b-4 popcap cost goes to the men that crew it and the gun itself doesnt consume popcap.
The easy fix would be to make it like all other weapons and have the weapon itself consume popcap.
I sense this is more of a bug than a balance issue.
The easy fix would be to make it like all other weapons and have the weapon itself consume popcap.
I sense this is more of a bug than a balance issue.
9 Oct 2014, 18:27 PM
#15
Posts: 39
Well, now all those people who play 4v4 matches have a way to counter all those kings tigers, jagdtigers, and panthers.
I can already imagine it now, the first jagdtiger is spotted, and then suddenly... BOOM... 10 203mm shells rain down upon it
and then they ragequit
I can already imagine it now, the first jagdtiger is spotted, and then suddenly... BOOM... 10 203mm shells rain down upon it
and then they ragequit
Company of Heroes: Eastern Front Dev and general COH modder
Hopefully relic does the same with COH2...
Hopefully relic does the same with COH2...
10 Oct 2014, 03:13 AM
#16
Posts: 70
They fixed the B-4 rapid-fire bug, right?
10 Oct 2014, 08:55 AM
#17
Posts: 923
@Crysack Yes they did.
Disclaimer: Posts made while drunk should not count against this poster.
10 Oct 2014, 09:03 AM
#18
Posts: 923
Well, now all those people who play 4v4 matches have a way to counter all those kings tigers, jagdtigers, and panthers.
I can already imagine it now, the first jagdtiger is spotted, and then suddenly... BOOM... 10 203mm shells rain down upon it
and then they ragequit
A single 3 Vet B-4 doing precision strike has a good chance to instawipe a Jagdlol. Getting two pens with jacksons/SU-85 and a precision strike right on the KT.. This kill the KT.
No need for 5, even two is alot.
Disclaimer: Posts made while drunk should not count against this poster.
10 Oct 2014, 21:55 PM
#19
Posts: 42
I did not know this... That is half a tonne of HE per fire cycle.
Let me just go spam and see if it is possible to die out of happiness
Relic don't dare touch that shit for atleast a week.
Almost made me fire up the game again, abusing Axis players with B4 always such a pleasure.
Is it not obvious dumb ass? The word "kill", means that I pull the trigger, the gun goes off and your brain splatter all over the sand. The beach gets bloody and you gets dead.
11 Oct 2014, 01:43 AM
#20
Posts: 4928
Too bad the B-4 is one of the most RNG units in the game.
One shot, very strong, 1/5 chance to hit
One shot, very strong, 1/5 chance to hit
all you filthy hotchkiss lovers need to l2p #TeamPanzerIII
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