The Cost of Balance and Meta
20 Sep 2014, 01:38 AM
#1
1 
Posts: 1006
If you would have near "Perfect" balance and a fun/diverse meta but at the cost of only having 2 armies in the game and only 5 commanders per faction, would you say yes ?
20 Sep 2014, 01:48 AM
#2
1 
Posts: 2307 | Subs: 4
I was having more fun just before WFA came out and Ost and Sov were balanced pretty well against each other than I am having now. Diversity inside factions is much more important than diversity of factions, and the diversity of options for allied players within their factions is at rock bottom.
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Someone asked what my avatar was from... I really don't know.
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Someone asked what my avatar was from... I really don't know.
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20 Sep 2014, 01:51 AM
#3
Posts: 1963 | Subs: 1
I say yes. Like Tobis, I had more fun before WFA was released since it was the Eastern Front and also close to being balanced. Now that 2 new armies have been introduced, it;s gonna be super hard to balance all 4 factions.
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20 Sep 2014, 02:23 AM
#4
Posts: 508
Would the commanders actually be different from each other if there were only five of them? Not big on the fewer commanders idea. Right now it's wonky but I'm pretty sure more than 5 of the Sov and Ost commanders are viable, so the commander bloat still works.
I do wish that it was just USF versus OKW, and OH versus SOV.. but that would split the community.
20 Sep 2014, 02:28 AM
#5
7 Posts: 1664
Interesting... I also had my fun threshold right before WFA came out and I was even in the Alpha playing the new armies.
20 Sep 2014, 03:02 AM
#6
Posts: 67
It's a weird progression. The armies were at their most balanced state before the March Deployment if anyone remembers; Relic released information on win:loss ratios over time, and as of right before the March Deployment they were nearly dead even. Then the Deployment shook everything up, and we dealt with the balance growing pains of the new combat system. Then, once everything was close to even again (at least in perceived balance) before WFA, it's shaken up once more.
Relic did manage to balance the teams twice before into at least an acceptable state, but it took a lot of time and they were only working with two factions. Now? I can only imagine it's going to take longer, with a harder hit to peoples' patience.
Relic did manage to balance the teams twice before into at least an acceptable state, but it took a lot of time and they were only working with two factions. Now? I can only imagine it's going to take longer, with a harder hit to peoples' patience.
20 Sep 2014, 06:35 AM
#7
Posts: 467
Key part: fun/diverse meta
I do not consider playing against maxim spammers and especially those who abuse snipers 'fun' at all. Needs to be changed.
I do not consider playing against maxim spammers and especially those who abuse snipers 'fun' at all. Needs to be changed.
20 Sep 2014, 06:54 AM
#8
Posts: 1042
Key part: fun/diverse meta
I do not consider playing against maxim spammers and especially those who abuse snipers 'fun' at all. Needs to be changed.
And I hate having to use such tactics to have a chance of winning as Soviets.
Agreed.
20 Sep 2014, 07:20 AM
#9
Posts: 2561
It's a weird progression. The armies were at their most balanced state before the March Deployment if anyone remembers; Relic released information on win:loss ratios over time, and as of right before the March Deployment they were nearly dead even. Then the Deployment shook everything up, and we dealt with the balance growing pains of the new combat system. Then, once everything was close to even again (at least in perceived balance) before WFA, it's shaken up once more.That graph they showed had absolutely no dates. Also before the march deployment patch the balance was a very harsh early game vs late game balance. Even if it resulted in a 1:1 win ratio it was still a terrible way to balance.
Relic did manage to balance the teams twice before into at least an acceptable state, but it took a lot of time and they were only working with two factions. Now? I can only imagine it's going to take longer, with a harder hit to peoples' patience.
Besides it's not like we know what the current win ratio is anyway. For all we know it's still split rather even.
20 Sep 2014, 07:29 AM
#10
Posts: 1702
The game was alot more fun pre-WFA, atleast for me.
20 Sep 2014, 08:19 AM
#11
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
No, I would get bored to death and abandon the game.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
20 Sep 2014, 08:38 AM
#12
Posts: 2561
That too. If this game was like that I would have stopped playing a year ago. This kind of thing only appeals to the competitive crowd, and that alone won't sell the game enough for it to be successful and profitable. The only reason I stick around is because when I get tired of playing one way there's like 100 more ways to try.
20 Sep 2014, 08:47 AM
#13
Posts: 179
I love the diversity. I think aside from a little tweaks in balance, Relic is doing a great job.
20 Sep 2014, 09:27 AM
#14
Posts: 1617
I voted yes, 'cause right now the game is in a retarded state.
Since WFA the fun meter has dropped way too much, the diversity isn't enough for COH2.
Since WFA the fun meter has dropped way too much, the diversity isn't enough for COH2.
20 Sep 2014, 09:52 AM
#15
Posts: 366
imho the real question is how to create a diverse meta. Right now, imo atleast, coh2 is a tactical units vs units game. If i dont have elefant, isu will f#@k me. The whole early game mid and even some late game is dependant on units that need the ONLY counters.
they need to introduce strategy via feul based upgrades that scale with time and vet.
a simple example would be to buff the american atgun so that a new strat will come around, the rifles + atg creep backed by arty or a sherman into the late game.
a simple solution for the isu would be adding an upgradeble gun. it starts off with an anti inf main gun that ofc doesnt 1 shot squads but there is an upgrade availble that can turn it into and armor killer but at the cost of losing anti inf power.. this should ofc be a permanent upgrade and not switchable.
same goes for kubel.. either give it higher damage as it has now and take away its supression.. or give it suppression and take away its higher damage.
they need to introduce strategy via feul based upgrades that scale with time and vet.
a simple example would be to buff the american atgun so that a new strat will come around, the rifles + atg creep backed by arty or a sherman into the late game.
a simple solution for the isu would be adding an upgradeble gun. it starts off with an anti inf main gun that ofc doesnt 1 shot squads but there is an upgrade availble that can turn it into and armor killer but at the cost of losing anti inf power.. this should ofc be a permanent upgrade and not switchable.
same goes for kubel.. either give it higher damage as it has now and take away its supression.. or give it suppression and take away its higher damage.
We choose our joys and sorrows long before we experience them
20 Sep 2014, 10:00 AM
#16
Posts: 1701
If WFA hasnt released, I would have stopped playing long time ago
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20 Sep 2014, 10:10 AM
#17
Posts: 366
more simple little tweaks can be done to make a much diversified matchup.
the lmg upgrade for the wher can turned into a feul based global upgrade for grens, which gives the wher player choice to either tech or upgrade.
introduce defelection damage to atguns.
increase callin cp from 11 to 13-14 so that people have enough tech pacing to feild tier vehicles and call ins. you simply cannot wait 14 cps for a callin tiger, the opponent will tech and push you off the map.
the list goes on and on. these small changes will have big impacts on gameplay. Hope anyone from relic reads my opinion.
the lmg upgrade for the wher can turned into a feul based global upgrade for grens, which gives the wher player choice to either tech or upgrade.
introduce defelection damage to atguns.
increase callin cp from 11 to 13-14 so that people have enough tech pacing to feild tier vehicles and call ins. you simply cannot wait 14 cps for a callin tiger, the opponent will tech and push you off the map.
the list goes on and on. these small changes will have big impacts on gameplay. Hope anyone from relic reads my opinion.
We choose our joys and sorrows long before we experience them
20 Sep 2014, 11:52 AM
#18
Posts: 508 | Subs: 1
These small changes will have big impacts on gameplay.
They aren't exactly small.
20 Sep 2014, 11:54 AM
#19
Posts: 23
I liked the game before the March Deployment,then the game just failed month after month 
20 Sep 2014, 12:03 PM
#20
Posts: 577
If you would have near "Perfect" balance and a fun/diverse meta but at the cost of only having 2 armies in the game and only 5 commanders per faction, would you say yes ?
I would certainly say YES to the question itself, even though it's pretty much impossible. The commanders would need to completely change the factions so much, that it's basically 10 different factions. Otherwise I just can't see myself having too much fun in the long time and a diverse meta existing.
If you ask the question if CoH2 should be changed into something like this? No, as it's impossible to achieve. All it would do is decrease the variety in the game, which would make it less appealing to me.
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