Close the Pocket
10 Sep 2014, 14:33 PM
#81
Posts: 665
They should have designed it differently. Have it be a quick, cheap, fairly powerful, rapidly recharging artillery barrage only usable on cutoff sectors. So it's still a big advantage for you to fight in those sectors, but it's not a stupid 1 click to rout the entire map bullshit ability.
10 Sep 2014, 14:49 PM
#82
Posts: 8
that coffee seems to be a bit op.
$1 for a spamable aoe burn is way to cheap.
$1 for a spamable aoe burn is way to cheap.
10 Sep 2014, 16:14 PM
#83
Posts: 168
If you watch the video there's strong evidence that there was a cache on the point.
The player killed it with a Panther and then stuka'd the point. If he didn't have munitions then he could have used Stormtroopers with infiltration to decap it. If he didn't have munitions or manpower then he could have used Breakthrough and de-captured the point with a Panther for 40 fuel almost instantly.
Encirclement can use every single type of resource to support this game winning artillery.
I coordinated the whole thing with a friend who was using the same doctrine. We had infantry and panthers at the cutoffs with breakthrough enabled so destroying the caches was easy. We also had 2 stuka strikes ready; both of us were also ready to pop the actual close the pocket once we had the map cut off.
It takes some coordinated effort to use the ability effectively as has been said but that's standard play in team games
10 Sep 2014, 16:29 PM
#84
4 
Posts: 951
Uh, McDonald's got sued for a million dollars over a $1 cup of coffee that stupid person didn't think was hot and spilled on themselves. I live in America you can sue anyone for anything here....
I've tried dropping this commander in my lap to see if it could physically injure me for a couple of hours now. Sadly it's digital and therefore not physically tangible. As such it's incapable of causing personal injury of the sort you describe. All is not lost, though, I'm calling 1-800 MY-LAWYER-CAN-DEFY-LAWS-OF-PHYSICS.
10 Sep 2014, 17:46 PM
#85
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
Just build a cache on a cut off to protect it.
Close the Pocket is working as intended guys
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
10 Sep 2014, 17:49 PM
#86
Posts: 431
![[UpperAustria] Prouser27 flag](/images/replay/soviets_flag.jpg)
haha here you can see me anschlussing the usa with anschluss arty! sehr gut!
10 Sep 2014, 20:46 PM
#87
Posts: 1595 | Subs: 2
Unfortunately this is just another nail in the coffin for the 3v3 and 4v4 game modes. It is a clear showing of disrespect to the community whom enjoy these game modes when super units and abilities are introduced into the game without proper due diligence. Relic should have the foresight to see the impact this ability would have in larger game modes. Shame.
The views and opinions expressed in my posts and topics are solely those of the Napalm. These views and opinions do not necessarily represent those of Relic, the developers, The Angry Bears and/or any/all contributors to this site.
10 Sep 2014, 20:52 PM
#88
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
Unfortunately this is just another nail in the coffin for the 3v3 and 4v4 game modes. It is a clear showing of disrespect to the community whom enjoy these game modes when super units and abilities are introduced into the game without proper due diligence. Relic should have the foresight to see the impact this ability would have in larger game modes. Shame.
Now that you mentioned it, I instantly imagined 3-4 players using the doctrine, all using stuka dive to decap cut offs and someone using the arty=instawin
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
10 Sep 2014, 21:06 PM
#89
Posts: 2070
Yeah things that are imba usually magnify itself in large team games
Axis doesn't have the best AT options in the game
11 Sep 2014, 07:47 AM
#90
Posts: 32
Will a cache survive the stuka dive bomb?
yes the CP dive bomb provided by encirclement doctrine only does like 10% of the hp of a cache.
11 Sep 2014, 18:18 PM
#91
Posts: 365
i like the concept of the encirclement doctrine though..
I think the arty just needs adjustments. It's firepower/frequency/accuracy should be inversely proportional to its target area (in the same way arty trucks work)
So if the arty is targeting a single cut off sector, it should rain down lots of shells in that small concentrated area and quickly kill everything.
But if a pocket of sectors nearly the size of the map is being cut off (as this video), the arty needs to be less effective throughout each sector.
The sort of hellstorm in the video should have been reserved if only up to 2-3 sectors were cut off. In 4-5 or more sectors it should be more like a light rain with a chance of death.
I think the arty just needs adjustments. It's firepower/frequency/accuracy should be inversely proportional to its target area (in the same way arty trucks work)
So if the arty is targeting a single cut off sector, it should rain down lots of shells in that small concentrated area and quickly kill everything.
But if a pocket of sectors nearly the size of the map is being cut off (as this video), the arty needs to be less effective throughout each sector.
The sort of hellstorm in the video should have been reserved if only up to 2-3 sectors were cut off. In 4-5 or more sectors it should be more like a light rain with a chance of death.
11 Sep 2014, 20:00 PM
#92
Posts: 1355
Just build a cache on a cut off to protect it.
I am not a pro player and i try to not take part in balance discussions.And i mostly stick behind the dev team because i think they are the experts but this time, man....
When i saw the video and then i saw PQs answer, oh my god!!! My manners don't allow me to answer to PQ. I just leave it at that.
Ok, one last thing. WTF?????????????????????????????????????
Relic (in this case PQ) is doing This to us. Just put a T infront of the title
11 Sep 2014, 20:05 PM
#93
14 Posts: 10665 | Subs: 9
I am not a pro player and i try to not take part in balance discussions.And i mostly stick behind the dev team because i think they are the experts but this time, man....
When i saw the video and then i saw PQs answer, oh my god!!! My maners don't alow me to answer to PQ. I just leave it at that.
Ok, one last thing. WTF?????????????????????????????????????
I admire your politeness
11 Sep 2014, 20:06 PM
#94
Posts: 1355
I admire your politeness
Thanks, i tryed, i really did
12 Sep 2014, 14:06 PM
#95
3 Posts: 33 | Subs: 1
If you watch the video there's strong evidence that there was a cache on the point.
The player killed it with a Panther and then stuka'd the point. If he didn't have munitions then he could have used Stormtroopers with infiltration to decap it. If he didn't have munitions or manpower then he could have used Breakthrough and de-captured the point with a Panther for 40 fuel almost instantly.
Encirclement can use every single type of resource to support this game winning artillery.
There's no justifiable excuse for an artillery strike being quite this powerful in my opinion.
This attack literally kills everything on the map. Like. Literally. The video proves it. That's insane!
Imagine two close-air support players playing along side two Encirclement Doctrine players. Close air support can convert fuel into munitions. One player uses a scout plane over the cutoffs. Close Air Support player uses Stuka Bombing Run.
I'm willing to bet a Stuka Bombing Run could destroy the cache -and- decap the point with a single strike.
Then the encirclement artillery starts and it's game over.
It just seems so insane. It's so powerful it kills all of the infantry and all of the tanks in every sector?
This artillery barrage automatically attacks front-line sectors even if there is no cutoff. Even in a worst case scenario you are still getting value out of the strike. That's madness. I hear that the strength of the "frontline" bombardment is weaker but that still means this bombardment has a skill floor. If your cutoff fails you still get something out of it. If it succeeds you win the game.
A flimsy cache is not a reasonable defense against a game-winning play.
Amen to that^
12 Sep 2014, 23:33 PM
#96
Posts: 48
First of all, if you don't have anything cut off, it does not "artillery barrage front line sectors" it very lightly mortars them, and is not effective at all. So cut that BS out, it's basically worthless without using Stormtroopers, Breakthrough, or Stuka directly in conjunction with it.
That pushes the munitions/mp+munitions investment way higher then just the initial cost of the Close the Pocket ability.
Otherwise?
If they manage to get your cut off with Storms/Stuka, you we're not protecting it. It's pretty easy to read this commander.
Are their infantry sprinting early game? Build a cache on your cutoff, and focus your AT defense in a way that you can protect it from direct armor pushes.
I only see this ability being a GG on people who already don't know how to protect their cutoff.
That pushes the munitions/mp+munitions investment way higher then just the initial cost of the Close the Pocket ability.
Otherwise?
If they manage to get your cut off with Storms/Stuka, you we're not protecting it. It's pretty easy to read this commander.
Are their infantry sprinting early game? Build a cache on your cutoff, and focus your AT defense in a way that you can protect it from direct armor pushes.
I only see this ability being a GG on people who already don't know how to protect their cutoff.
14 Sep 2014, 11:44 AM
#97
Posts: 1355
First of all, if you don't have anything cut off, it does not "artillery barrage front line sectors" it very lightly mortars them, and is not effective at all. So cut that BS out, it's basically worthless without using Stormtroopers, Breakthrough, or Stuka directly in conjunction with it.
That pushes the munitions/mp+munitions investment way higher then just the initial cost of the Close the Pocket ability.
Otherwise?
If they manage to get your cut off with Storms/Stuka, you we're not protecting it. It's pretty easy to read this commander.
Are their infantry sprinting early game? Build a cache on your cutoff, and focus your AT defense in a way that you can protect it from direct armor pushes.
I only see this ability being a GG on people who already don't know how to protect their cutoff.
A ability which bombs half of the map without LOS is OK. Yeh yeh man, what ever.
14 Sep 2014, 13:05 PM
#98
Posts: 117
speaking from a 3v3, 4v4 prospective, closing the pocket is really hard.
The video shown is basically the perfect scenario. It might be OP on this one map due to everyone rushing the town and only two cut offs but that's about it.
For everyone calling OP go and try to close the pocket yourself
>Most big team games have 4 cut offs
>When you can capture these points most likely you have already defeated their armies and pushed them out of any pocket
>You need 12 command points to be even able to use the ability, so if you do create a pocket early/mid game you cannot use the ability
Also when you choose this command you deprive yourself from late game amour and smoke launchers. If anything be happy when your opponent tries to close that pocket because he is just choosing a worse commander.
The video shown is basically the perfect scenario. It might be OP on this one map due to everyone rushing the town and only two cut offs but that's about it.
For everyone calling OP go and try to close the pocket yourself
>Most big team games have 4 cut offs
>When you can capture these points most likely you have already defeated their armies and pushed them out of any pocket
>You need 12 command points to be even able to use the ability, so if you do create a pocket early/mid game you cannot use the ability
Also when you choose this command you deprive yourself from late game amour and smoke launchers. If anything be happy when your opponent tries to close that pocket because he is just choosing a worse commander.
14 Sep 2014, 14:01 PM
#99
Posts: 2742
There are two glaring and obvious problems with Close the Pocket.
First off, all frontline sectors get hit, and secondly the ability provides LOS for the player, requiring no spotting or any force to have to remain cutting off territory.
Just the time it takes to recapture is enough to cause lethal damage to an entire team. Without one or both of those game breaking qualities of the ability, it would've been sane to release.
But Relic is obviously aware of this. They have never ever released a commander that was balanced. In a few months the commander will have acquired it's intended goal, and it will become balanced/broken in time for the next release.
First off, all frontline sectors get hit, and secondly the ability provides LOS for the player, requiring no spotting or any force to have to remain cutting off territory.
Just the time it takes to recapture is enough to cause lethal damage to an entire team. Without one or both of those game breaking qualities of the ability, it would've been sane to release.
But Relic is obviously aware of this. They have never ever released a commander that was balanced. In a few months the commander will have acquired it's intended goal, and it will become balanced/broken in time for the next release.
Strategic Territory Points Mod:
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=604491510
Classic resource points!
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=604491510
Classic resource points!
14 Sep 2014, 14:13 PM
#100
Posts: 400
A ability which bombs half of the map without LOS is OK. Yeh yeh man, what ever.
If it bombs half the map, sorry man, but you deserve to lose. For once, something new and refreshing hits the game, and half the community spends countless hours lurking balance forums and/or making videos to somehow prove how OP the new mechanic is. Would you mind going back to the drawing board, and learn how to counter it rather than whining ? It is maybe doing a bit too much damage for its cost, but it doesn't in anyway "bomb hald of the map" on a constant basis. Like i said, if it happens to you every time, the problem lies between your desk chair and your keyboard.
speaking from a 3v3, 4v4 prospective, closing the pocket is really hard.
The video shown is basically the perfect scenario. It might be OP on this one map due to everyone rushing the town and only two cut offs but that's about it.
For everyone calling OP go and try to close the pocket yourself
>Most big team games have 4 cut offs
>When you can capture these points most likely you have already defeated their armies and pushed them out of any pocket
>You need 12 command points to be even able to use the ability, so if you do create a pocket early/mid game you cannot use the ability
Also when you choose this command you deprive yourself from late game amour and smoke launchers. If anything be happy when your opponent tries to close that pocket because he is just choosing a worse commander.
Couldn't have said it better.
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