Marketeconomy in Coh2 and other rts
3 Sep 2014, 12:19 PM
#1
Posts: 680
Well marketeconomy may not be the best way to organize the world but maybe it would be the best way to balance rts-games. It seems that relic never will be able to balance this game. Wouldnt it be better that the price of the units would be dependent on the market? If many buy (build) a unit the unit would go up in price and if few build a unit the price will fall. AS an example, in this state of the game the SU-76 would be much cheaper than it is at the moment and rifles maybe would be a bit more expensive.
3 Sep 2014, 13:19 PM
#2
Posts: 400
Well marketeconomy may not be the best way to organize the world but maybe it would be the best way to balance rts-games. It seems that relic never will be able to balance this game. Wouldnt it be better that the price of the units would be dependent on the market? If many buy (build) a unit the unit would go up in price and if few build a unit the price will fall. AS an example, in this state of the game the SU-76 would be much cheaper than it is at the moment and rifles maybe would be a bit more expensive.
Having to look at every unit's price everytime you want to build one would be a pain in the ass, imo. And basic infantry for each faction would be all screwed up, just imagine grens being 350 mp, or riflemen being 400 ^^
3 Sep 2014, 14:06 PM
#3
3 
Posts: 322
Fascinating idea - it'd be tricky to implement though. ie Are people building rifles because they're OP, or is that just what you're supposed to build... With some interference it could probably be weighted satisfactorily, but then the balance debate would just turn into a debate about how successfully weighting is implemented, etc.
With so many thousands playing I don't think volatility would be a problem. Prices would probably drift slowly in one direction over the course of days/weeks.
With so many thousands playing I don't think volatility would be a problem. Prices would probably drift slowly in one direction over the course of days/weeks.
3 Sep 2014, 14:21 PM
#4
4 
Posts: 640 | Subs: 1
This is a brilliant idea.
I always thought it would totally rock if CoH had some sort of a global campaign mode that influenced all matches. One week - preparation for Kursk, tanks more expensive on both sides. Another week - Kursk started, tanks cheaper on both sides. Next week - it's winter, only winter maps on rotation etc. Another week - Operation Little Saturn, Germans are on the defensive and cannot win matches, only put up a resistance, so they can only decapture Victory Points and need to destroy a set amount of Soviet units to win before VPs tick to zero. Etc etc.
Probably would be impossible to balance, so it should be a separate mode from ranked automatch. Triple war spoils drop rate or something to attract people to this mode.
I always thought it would totally rock if CoH had some sort of a global campaign mode that influenced all matches. One week - preparation for Kursk, tanks more expensive on both sides. Another week - Kursk started, tanks cheaper on both sides. Next week - it's winter, only winter maps on rotation etc. Another week - Operation Little Saturn, Germans are on the defensive and cannot win matches, only put up a resistance, so they can only decapture Victory Points and need to destroy a set amount of Soviet units to win before VPs tick to zero. Etc etc.
Probably would be impossible to balance, so it should be a separate mode from ranked automatch. Triple war spoils drop rate or something to attract people to this mode.
3 Sep 2014, 14:25 PM
#5
Posts: 2070
really cool idea but I don't think it would work in a WW2 themed RTS. Some units are meant to be cheap and some expensive. It would be a lot to control for and would make balance even harder
Axis doesn't have the best AT options in the game
3 Sep 2014, 14:28 PM
#6
1 
Posts: 165
Honestly, this idea isn't that bad drChenele, would sound like an interesting mode to play btw
3 Sep 2014, 14:32 PM
#7
Posts: 2070
Yes a global campaign which can influence and give bonuses would be awesome. Imagine a map of Europe being battleground for COH players. Every win or loss would change the look of the map. The winning side will get warspoils and nice cosmetic items.
BUT this is off topic heheh
BUT this is off topic heheh
Axis doesn't have the best AT options in the game
3 Sep 2014, 15:06 PM
#8
Posts: 508
Cool idea, definitely in the "never gonna happen in this game" category though.
It'd need to make an exception for units that are supposed to be spam by design. US would be boned if riflemen shot up in price because everyone builds them.
It'd need to make an exception for units that are supposed to be spam by design. US would be boned if riflemen shot up in price because everyone builds them.
3 Sep 2014, 15:17 PM
#9
4 Posts: 640 | Subs: 1
It'd need to make an exception for units that are supposed to be spam by design. US would be boned if riflemen shot up in price because everyone builds them.There are very easy ways around this. I think noone expects spamming Grenadiers to be as severely penalized as spamming ISUs.
Just add a "buffer" before it impacts a price. Look at the maximum number of a unit simultaneously fielded by a single player during a match (to avoid squad wipes and replacing those wipes having too much of an impact).
So, up to 3 Rifles at the same time = no impact on price, 4th rifle = small impact, 5th rifle = larger impact.
expected value for Sturmpios would be 1.8, for Cons and Volks 3 or 4... etc.
Expected value for ISUs, Tigers,IS2s etc. would be 0.15 . So fielding even one would impact global prices and it would take 5 games without fielding one to return it.
3 Sep 2014, 15:17 PM
#10
4 Posts: 640 | Subs: 1
(double post, my apologies)
3 Sep 2014, 15:23 PM
#11
15 
Posts: 1970 | Subs: 5
While kind of interesting, I feel like this would just make balancing the game even harder than it already is.
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3 Sep 2014, 15:29 PM
#12
Posts: 332 | Subs: 1
It would be fun, but not really competitive. The problem is that balance between the factions would not be achieved. Instead you basically support unit usage that is less valuable in a certain situation, because it is much cheaper. Factions needed to be designed for this. OKW has no chioce but going Volks early, so that would be a huge setback already, since Soviets at least havea choice between Maxims and Conscripts.
It sounds really interesting, but I would not want it to be playecd competitively.
It sounds really interesting, but I would not want it to be playecd competitively.
3 Sep 2014, 16:00 PM
#13
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
As a new mode: it has some points in favour but some huge flaws, regarding faction design and accesibility to different tiers.
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
3 Sep 2014, 16:49 PM
#14
Posts: 655
Permanently BannedGood idea but not appropriate for this type of game imo.
A Fallen Scrub
3 Sep 2014, 18:14 PM
#15
Posts: 508
It works well in certain board games I play. In Small World, you select new civilizations to deploy, and if you pass one over in the lineup in favor of another further back, you have to put a coin (victory point) on each you passover.
In other words, if you select a civ that 4 people looked at and said "hell no," you get a bonus for finally picking it.
This idea is cool but I agree it'd make balancing too complicated in a game of this nature. The board games where it works well have fewer stats and mechanics.
A related, simpler idea - what if relic:
- tracked commander selections in the top 200 automatch for each game mode
- gave small resource bonuses for selecting the extinct commanders? So if you pick Ostruppen, or soviet defense, you get more MP.
Maybe in CoH3...
In other words, if you select a civ that 4 people looked at and said "hell no," you get a bonus for finally picking it.
This idea is cool but I agree it'd make balancing too complicated in a game of this nature. The board games where it works well have fewer stats and mechanics.
A related, simpler idea - what if relic:
- tracked commander selections in the top 200 automatch for each game mode
- gave small resource bonuses for selecting the extinct commanders? So if you pick Ostruppen, or soviet defense, you get more MP.
Maybe in CoH3...
3 Sep 2014, 19:30 PM
#16
Posts: 365
it wouldnt really improve balance IMO. itd just kind of cycle between different "best" units.
3 Sep 2014, 19:48 PM
#17
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
What about increased war spoil drop for using unorthodox commanders ? On the same way we have free commanders each week, we should also have a "bonus" get more war spoils commander.
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
3 Sep 2014, 20:41 PM
#18
Posts: 68
It's an interesting idea but...
Spamming the cheapest units becomes a strategy no one's going to want to deal with.
No only that but if enough people spam them, it'll change their price, they'll become more expensive and that's good. However, something else just became cheap and guess what, it's going to be spammed.
No thanks.
Spamming the cheapest units becomes a strategy no one's going to want to deal with.
No only that but if enough people spam them, it'll change their price, they'll become more expensive and that's good. However, something else just became cheap and guess what, it's going to be spammed.
No thanks.
3 Sep 2014, 21:17 PM
#19
Posts: 508
What about increased war spoil drop for using unorthodox commanders ? On the same way we have free commanders each week, we should also have a "bonus" get more war spoils commander.
That is an AWESOME idea. Gets them more played without unbalancing the game.
If it's soviet defense, it'd have to be one war spoils drop every half hour....
3 Sep 2014, 21:23 PM
#20
Posts: 70
Interesting idea, but risky experiment. Market economy of Diablo 3 was disastrous and consequently removed in the expansion.
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