Shocks

Jump back to quoted post19 Aug 2014, 22:52 PMAlbus

I'm not a huge fan of the current Shock balance. Smoke grenades don't exactly take an IQ of >160 to use properly: You throw the smoke grenade the maximum distance the Shock can throw it towards the unit you want to flank and then charge up.

Shocks are the only squad in the game left with functioning, non-vet related armor. They're also a 6 man squad with extremely high DPS which makes them incredibly effective. I personally don't mind their DPS but their survivability is a little frustrating, especially paired with their smoke grenade.

For 390 MP and 37(I think) reinforce, they're extremely cost-effective (unless you're retarded and charge them through red cover at multiple squads). If you can get them close, they're insanely punishing and will deplete a full HP squad (or multiple squads) at a drop of a hat. I don't know if I like this cost-effectiveness: Keep in mind, similar squads like Falschirmjaegers and Obersoldaten with the IR upgrade just don't have this effectiveness (These are significantly more expensive squads as well).

I think the main "advantage" of shocks is their survivability. I dunno whether that advantage is a problem though, although it gives Shocktroopers the edge over the Axis factional equivalents of the unit.

Jump back to quoted post20 Aug 2014, 09:42 AMpigsoup

1. It does not take IQ of >160 to expect smoke/see it, then to move your units farther away from the smoke.

2. Armor acts almost identically with reduced incoming accuracy modifier which many wher and okw units have except armor is slightly worse.

3. extremely high dps at hugging range. yes it is funny to see your units drop like flies even at hugging range but anything short from that shocks do so little damage.

4. Falls and Obers are not similar squads.

5. They are more survivable then other squads due to the fact that they have to close in to do the damage.

Jump back to quoted post20 Aug 2014, 10:21 AMWarthrone

Yeah i guess we should shit in the face of PGs, Assault grens and Strums as they work the same way yet have no armor. Awesome work.

Jump back to quoted post20 Aug 2014, 10:21 AMWarthrone

Yeah i guess we should shit in the face of PGs, Assault grens and Strums as they work the same way yet have no armor. Awesome work.

Jump back to quoted post20 Aug 2014, 06:59 AMJohnnyB

Shocks have several weaknesses:

- they cost alot to call-in and to reinforce. Used extensively, they can drain your manpower;
- they are efficient only in close quorter combat though they have no problem reaching it. So they must be kept at distance;
- they got no AT.

So what we learn from this?
- Use something that kills them quickly enough. Like mines, snipers, vehicles (especialy AA vehicles);
- Keep them at distance as much as possible by supressing them or by moving your units backwards. Concentrate all your infantry fire on one squad at a time;
- use vehicles (even light vehicles to chase and kill them).

There you are.

No, they are not inbalanced. I frankly prefer to be "shocked" than "tanked" or "ISUed"

Jump back to quoted post20 Aug 2014, 10:55 AMJohnThomas

Your logic is wrong; for example if the Wehrmacht sniper was to have 10x the RoF it would still have "no AT", "cost alot" and die at close range. But it would be extremely overpowered.

Whether or not something has counters or is killable doesn't tell you if it overperforms or underperforms.

Jump back to quoted post20 Aug 2014, 11:41 AMSeverino

Remove armor. They don't need it with 6 men, crazy high dps and smoke.

Jump back to quoted post20 Aug 2014, 11:01 AMJohnnyB

Just trying to be constructive there. Shocks are one of the smallest inbalance problems soviet army has because you can deal with them. If we are talking about ISU for instance, now that's a big problem, because in the hands of a not stupid player it is almos unkillable.

Jump back to quoted post20 Aug 2014, 09:42 AMpigsoup

2. Armor acts almost identically with reduced incoming accuracy modifier which many wher and okw units have except armor is slightly worse.

Jump back to quoted post20 Aug 2014, 13:23 PMTensaiOni

I'd say different, not worse. It's worse against units that have enough penetration to nullify armour, but better against high accuracy low penetration weapons - for example, like many of vetted German infantry.

Jump back to quoted post19 Aug 2014, 23:33 PMWarthrone

Cons are fine. In fact they are too effective at being multipurpose. Molo is too cheap, oorah negates gren effectiveness immediately , insanely cheap to reinforce, Can merge. What more do you want?

Jump back to quoted post20 Aug 2014, 14:42 PMCptEend

They are fine against Wehr. They're absolutely shit against OKW unfortunately. That's the problem though, you can't just buff conscripts because it will fuck up Wehr vs Soviet balance, but as long as they won't be buffed we'll only see Maxims and call-in units against OKW :/

Jump back to quoted post20 Aug 2014, 14:42 PMCptEend

They are fine against Wehr. They're absolutely shit against OKW unfortunately. That's the problem though, you can't just buff conscripts because it will fuck up Wehr vs Soviet balance, but as long as they won't be buffed we'll only see Maxims and call-in units against OKW :/