Button

I agree with OP. While we are at it Smoke and Blitz could be removed as well.

throw in an overdrive and youve got yourself a god damn deal

I agree with OP. While we are at it Smoke and Blitz could be removed as well.

I'd take that deal. Seeing a tank/HT zoom away at 5% health is grim. Overdrive too! Thx for the post!

And thanks everyone who gave feedback, both those who disagreed / agreed with counter-nerfs.

throw in an overdrive and youve got yourself a god damn deal

As far as I'm aware, blitz got changed to speed buff, overdrive is still only acceleration buff.
Unless there was another stealth change.

You have to accelerate to reach a speed, fyi.

Not that Wooof mentioned either speed or acceleration.
Dunno why you did.

Blitz, smoke, overdrive, button. And give proper AT capabilities to PTRS (even if guards need to come without them to balance them early on)

PD: this is not gonna happen

You have to accelerate to reach a speed, fyi.

Not that Wooof mentioned either speed or acceleration.
Dunno why you did.

Because he seems to be hinting that overdrive and blitz are comparable.

Overdrive gives acceleration unless it was ninja changed.
Blitz gives both, speed and acceleration.

Because he seems to be hinting that overdrive and blitz are comparable.

Except that no, he really didnt.
That was just in your own head.

Know what I mean?

He didnt actually say, or hint, anything like that...

+ Woof knows stats better than most of us put together.
If he means to "hint" at something, he will just outright say it.

DPs are expensive.
Button itself is rather expensive as well.
Guards die relatively easy.

Button is most often a way to punish axis players for overextending with vehicles/armor.
I like button.

Because he seems to be hinting that overdrive and blitz are comparable.

Overdrive gives acceleration unless it was ninja changed.
Blitz gives both, speed and acceleration.

well i wasnt, but if you want to get into it they are comparable. they may be slightly more different than they used to be, but they are still similar.

both reduce recieved accuracy. both increase acceleration. both require vet 1.

blitz has the advantage of increasing speed by 35% as well.

overdrive has the advantage of costing 1/3 as many munitions, lasting 33% longer, working with engine damage, further reducing damage to squads inside the vehicles,

DPs are expensive.
Button itself is rather expensive as well.
Guards die relatively easy.

Button is most often a way to punish axis players for overextending with vehicles/armor.
I like button.

Well summed up.
Short and concise.
(Not to disrespect Bulgakov's concerns in OP though)

Wooof: Jesus christ, man...
You didn't have to own him THAT hard

But thanks for the deluge of data!
I definitely learned some stats from that!

Soviets have no real handheld AT, they need something to compensate. Button is doctrinal, 60 ammo a pop, requires a 75 ammo upgrade, and comes on a platform that doesn't have that much going for it. Soviets going Guards means they don't have Shocks and LMG grens can counter their entire infantry roster. With how sucky PTRS are, the Guards also need a supporting unit to make Button worthwhile, and a single pop of smoke (which is on half of Ostheer's doctrines and on several OKW vehicles) negates the ability entirely. If button gets nerfed/changed/removed, then PTRS need to become a valid anti-tank weapon against anything bigger than a halftrack.

Button's a bit ''gamey'', sure, but no more than sending red flares down the 10 square meters that heavy artillery will bombard in 3 seconds flat. Because that sure as hell ain't how arty works in real life. Or German wunderwaffen (some of them having almost never seen combat) working flawlessly all the time despite being plagued with design problems IRL. Or snipers turning, proning and shooting in the space of 2 seconds while getting a bullseye every time. Ect.

Soviets have no real handheld AT, they need something to compensate. Button is doctrinal, 60 ammo a pop, requires a 75 ammo upgrade, and comes on a platform that doesn't have that much going for it. Soviets going Guards means they don't have Shocks and LMG grens can counter their entire infantry roster. With how sucky PTRS are, the Guards also need a supporting unit to make Button worthwhile, and a single pop of smoke (which is on half of Ostheer's doctrines and on several OKW vehicles) negates the ability entirely. If button gets nerfed/changed/removed, then PTRS need to become a valid anti-tank weapon against anything bigger than a halftrack.

Button's a bit ''gamey'', sure, but no more than sending red flares down the 10 square meters that heavy artillery will bombard in 3 seconds flat. Because that sure as hell ain't how arty works in real life. Or German wunderwaffen (some of them having almost never seen combat) working flawlessly all the time despite being plagued with design problems IRL. Or snipers turning, proning and shooting in the space of 2 seconds while getting a bullseye every time. Ect.

Lot of good points, thanks! Yes, CoH2 is far from reality in a lot of ways... Some of the ways are good for gameplay, others aren't so great.

i would go the direction i came from since, you know, i just drove that way.

also, i wouldnt consider that "changing the circumstances". do you frequently button tanks with guards then just sit there for the duration of the ability? people typically button tanks so they can flank them or keep them in front of AT guns.

if you want to talk real life, im pretty sure a tank crew wouldnt say "lets sit here for a while, im sure their ability will be on cooldown soon"

Unfortunately the real life argument did come up earlier, so yes this is irl. There certainly is circumstances that infantry would button a tank without follow up from tank support. If I'm not mistaken it's in the most famous recorded instance from that British hero. I've also done it and had it done to me, in-game, with no follow up. I bet it's happened to you anyone else that plays. The point being that when your really in that cramped box it's much harder to make a decision than when your behind a keyboard and mouse with a god-eye view.

Common guys, I know button is annoying but far from game braking. In fact I am always more annoyed that I got myself caught in the button trap again rather than due to the ability itself.
"Damn I didn't see these Guards coming".

Let molotov able to burn down the tank engine and remove button

If button were to go (which seems reasonable as I've been facing it recently and it ain't too fun) I'd recommend a massive buff to PTRSs and the option for cons to nondoctrinally access PTRS/PTRD rifles as well.
Otherwise Soviet AT option will be even worse.
If not cons then definitely penals. Possibly also Penals would need an AT trap similar to Cons AT nade.
Button is an integral, if poorly implemented and silly, part of Soviet AT options. If it goes then they must receive massive buffs elsewhere to compensate. Currently button rewards combined arms on the order of working with an SU-85 or ZiS-3 gun, its not just used to support an ISU.

Possibly also I'd recommend a target weakpoint ability with Veterancy for guards that is similar to German AT weapons in its knockout...

my problem with the ability is it works 100% of the time. literally every other AT ability like that has been nerfed. AT nades/faust used to pen 100%. ram used to pen 100%. target weak point used to pen 100%. all of them have since been nerfed because they were overperforming, particularly against heavy tanks. mediums still get penned almost 100% of the time by those abilities, but heavies atleast stand a small chance of not being crippled by a single button press.

many of you brought up the cost of DPs in this thread. DPs may be 15 munitions more expensive now than at release, but they have also been given massive dps buffs. that means guards are essentially now lmg grens. considering both grens and guards pretty much require an lmg upgrade to function in the late game, i would say the DP cost is pretty much irrelevant at this point. the DP justifies its cost in damage alone, the fact it also unlocks a powerful AT ability is just a bonus.

the other response people have been bringing up is smoke. the dynamic between smoke and button has also changed since launch though. smoke used to cost a small fraction of button. at launch, buttoning repeatedly would rain the soviets of munitions. now, smoke costs 10 munitions less than button. the drain on soviet munitions is barely greater than on the germans. i wont even get into how it makes no sense to require one of a few doctrines with smoke just in case soviets pick guards.

so judging the ability alone, for 40 muntitions, button disables all weapons, reduces speed by 90% and vision by 99% for 10 seconds. Faust/AT nade on the other hand only has a chance to disable engine for 25 munitions. the chances of destroying the engine (to get the same 90% speed reduction) is extremely slim (5% IF it pens). on top of that, button has 30 range, while faust/at nade has 18 and 15 range respectively.

TL;DR in my opinion, this is too much of an improvement over the other AT abilities for only 15 munitions more. it has the downsides of having a 10 second duration and restricting the guard squad, but these drawbacks can be mitigated. so when used properly, its just a 100% chance to give heavy engine damage and disable all weapons. there should be something the german player can do without smoke. even decreasing movement by only 80% would be a huge improvement. that would let slightly more tanks be able to escape the edge of the radius. 30m range means you practically have to be out of the sight radius to escape this ability currently.

literally every other AT ability like that has been nerfed.

I'm not sure if target weakpoint has ever been nerfed. It's been bugged from time to time which is annoying.

there should be something the german player can do without smoke.

Actually there is. If you can force the guards to move or retreat the button breaks.

I guess button is quite silly. I'd be happy if it was replaced with similar ability than target weakpoint. That way you could just lay the rounds in and pullback merrily instead of sitting in the rain of fire for 10 seconds.