Button

This is what happen, everytime, if you post something "nerf balanced stuff"-like.

Fixed.
You love to be inaccurate, don't you?

It is exactly how you would react to sudden "nerf grens" or "nerf panzershreck" thread.
This thread is no different.

It's still stupid. Maybe lower the Range a bit?

okay lower the range but replace the PTRS with bazookas....

out of all abilities in this game you choose to complain about button? worst thread ever without button guards are almost useless....


lets hope that no relic employee sees this thread or else they will go apeshit again and nerf an ability that nobody was complaining about, just like pgrens last patch and ZIS tracking ability.....

It is exactly how you would react to sudden "nerf grens" or "nerf panzershreck" thread.

No. It really isnt.

Make one and see for yourself.
You might learn a thing or two about respectful, objective and constructive posting, devoid of sarcasm and other irrelevancies, in the process too.

No. It really isnt.

Make one and see for yourself.
You might learn a thing or two about respectful, objective and constructive posting, devoid of sarcasm and other irrelevancies, in the process too.

The post opens with "does the game really need this ability?"

Of course you are not going to get good feedback when you want to eliminate the one ability that can stop the blitz madness (unless they use smoke, then it does not stop).

The Soviets ability to compete lategame is already limited to a handful of commanders, removing button would just shrink down even further.

I know you are not saying it is OP. I am saying it.

Lategame Soviets should lose. Button has to go. Lategame cheese should be something that only axis can do with Smoke, Blitz, Überinfantry, Kingtigers and Jagdtigers.

ok, thanks for the helpful answer. You deserve constructive king of forum status.



I never said late game soviets should lose, I said it's not great to have button+Bombing Run / ISU or button stopping early game sniper counters. I think it's one of the reasons for the current boring metas where both sides stand face to face and slug it out. I know that you like to play snipers to ISU + button +bombing run but... Don't you think the game would be better without it? And with some new options for soviets instead?


Do you think late game soviets would lose without button? Is it having that much effect? And if it is, should it? I remember you used it against me that time we played (Button+Bomb+ISU). I guess you use it a lot and don't like even the thought of being removed? Is that why you're so against this thread?




Man, if you'd just say "ok, if we consider it, then we have to consider changing the following Axis abilities: A, B, C." I'd say "yes, let's find what to buff for soviets" Then we could have a discussion. But instead you spit sarcasm all over your reply.



For example Skinless said:
"ok remove it, replace ptrs with bazooka" - Great idea. I'd totally go for that.

Case in point, tbh.

Cherrynpicking 1 phrase from his post doesnt really improve the counter-argument.

He never said remove it entirely, though you falsely implied it from that one benign phrase out of context.

He goes on, in explicit detail, with bolding, to explain why and how his point is relevant in his opinion...

This is not how respectful, objective and constructive discussion happens...

By all means, disagree if you do. But express it respectfully, objectively as possible, and constructively.

There's an invention in the game that allows you to escape being button'd.
Show Spoiler

How can you argument that Soviets NEED Button for their overall faction balance as long as Smoke exists? So If the enemy has no Smoke, the game is balanced, IF the enemy picks a smoke doctrine Autowin for Ostheer?

And plssss don't see this as a nerf Soviets thread. The question is if Button is a healthy, fun experience, and adds something to this game....

I really dislike button as a mechanic. It feels incredibly gamey, in a bad way. It's like a finger of god reaching out from the clouds, pressing down the poor tank and pinning it do the dirt, while giggling like a 5 year old who's done something naughty.

I don't think there should be abilities like "Button", but I don't have any suggestion of a better one.

If I was driving a tank and could not see at all where I was going, I don't think I would hit the gas. It would really be bad if the tank was stuck permanently and then the crew have to abandon the vehicle or worse...

The mobility element is necessary, or it would fail the second the armor reverses.

Sorry, Bulgakov, but I agree Button is alright.

Its very expensive to use, in addition to the DP purchase cost.

Its Sovs one infantry AT option, beyond AT nades. And though it is indeed powerful, Panzer Tactician outright negates it, at much less cost.

Infact, I am so crazy, that I would almost link Button native to Guard PTSR.
BUT the high cost of Shrecks, counteracts that.
One has pure dps output, the other, a very significant disabler.

I underdtand your concern, but I think ulti ately it comes down to recognising your Sov opponent has chosen Guard doctrine. Yes, that is reactive. Yes, that sucks abit. But Sov needs this. Its all they got.

If Sov chooses Guard, make them pay, by choosing a PTact Commander, and by focusing the hell out of the Guard for MP bleed. Its shi5, because agin, as I harp on aboutnin other threads, Ost is essentially reactive in builds. And, also, early game Commanders like Ostheer and Assgrens, are chosen BEFORE you know whether Sov will go Guards or whatever.

PS: I speak from a 1v1 perspective. I can see how this problem wpuld be much more prominent in 2v2+ setting. I dunno how to equalise the difference there, and becsuse it is Commander dependant, for Sov, and Ost in response to get PTact, dunno...

Button: Negatable, does no damage itself, range limit, easy to accidentally cancel, vehicles can still move at a very slow pace

Target weak point: Best thing ever

Yeah, I've no qualms with this

Tank shells? This was about button or are they using those new DP's that shoot tank shells?

Humoring you changing the circumstances for just a bit though, if I can't see out the tank how will I know where to go? When a shell hits the hull I'm sure it's not easy to tell which direction it came from. So any direction I move in could potentially be moving closer to the enemy I can't see or still yet, some obstacle the tank can get stuck in or otherwise disabled.

I think it's frustrating because as players we can see and we want the units to respond to whatever we tell them. If your screen went completely black upon getting buttoned, would you know where to move?

Button: Negatable, does no damage itself, range limit, easy to accidentally cancel, vehicles can still move at a very slow pace

Target weak point: Best thing ever

Yeah, I've no qualms with this

Now that you mention it, is Target Weak Point fixed yet? Or is it intentionally aimed at a certain spot and not at a unit?

Tank shells? This was about button or are they using those new DP's that shoot tank shells?

Humoring you changing the circumstances for just a bit though, if I can't see out the tank how will I know where to go? When a shell hits the hull I'm sure it's not easy to tell which direction it came from. So any direction I move in could potentially be moving closer to the enemy I can't see or still yet, some obstacle the tank can get stuck in or otherwise disabled.

I think it's frustrating because as players we can see and we want the units to respond to whatever we tell them. If your screen went completely black upon getting buttoned, would you know where to move?

i would go the direction i came from since, you know, i just drove that way.

also, i wouldnt consider that "changing the circumstances". do you frequently button tanks with guards then just sit there for the duration of the ability? people typically button tanks so they can flank them or keep them in front of AT guns.

if you want to talk real life, im pretty sure a tank crew wouldnt say "lets sit here for a while, im sure their ability will be on cooldown soon"

Tank shells? This was about button or are they using those new DP's that shoot tank shells?

Humoring you changing the circumstances for just a bit though, if I can't see out the tank how will I know where to go? When a shell hits the hull I'm sure it's not easy to tell which direction it came from. So any direction I move in could potentially be moving closer to the enemy I can't see or still yet, some obstacle the tank can get stuck in or otherwise disabled.

I think it's frustrating because as players we can see and we want the units to respond to whatever we tell them. If your screen went completely black upon getting buttoned, would you know where to move?

I have no idea what you are on about.

I've read it three times, and each time it just makes less sense than the time before.

As Bulgakov is actively moderating his own thread, I am leaving it untouched for time being....but it shows signs of becoming unwieldy.

Please respond to Bulgakov's nudges nicely - it is his thread and discussion is what he seeks, as I hope you all do. I'm certain you would rather he polices it, rather than Mods.

I'd trade button for handheld AT along the caliber of shreks. It's something that the Soviets sorely lack anyway.

I agree with OP. While we are at it Smoke and Blitz could be removed as well.