Right now I'm on a pretty good winning streak with this BO: Volks-Sturm-Volks-Volks
It basically requires a lot of flanking and so far (besides once) I've always managed to crush the opposing player within 15-20 min.
It seems quite good but are there any real disadvantages to this? i.e. are there any situations where it might 'hurt' me...
Certainly snipers would be bad and also shocks I didn't fare too well against, but quick Luchs or Puma would be a good option I think.
Any other general thoughts/experiences with double sturm?
Double sturmpioneers... good?
12 Aug 2014, 08:33 AM
#1
Posts: 467
12 Aug 2014, 15:45 PM
#2
15 
Posts: 1970 | Subs: 5
Depends on the map. Sometimes I get even more sturms, especially on stalingrad or faymonville.
I wouldn't recommend this on minsk pocket.
I'm also not all that great with OKW so you can take that with a grain of salt. I know some OKW players much better than me would never get a second squad.
I wouldn't recommend this on minsk pocket.
I'm also not all that great with OKW so you can take that with a grain of salt. I know some OKW players much better than me would never get a second squad.
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12 Aug 2014, 16:05 PM
#3
1 
Posts: 590 | Subs: 10
Hello Hitman5, as Romeo says, depends on the map but the problem is the reinforce cost (about 40mp). Yes, the unit is very strong but it cost 320mp, you've got a disadvantage on the map control in first minutes.
I usually do Volk Volk Volk and then MG34
I usually do Volk Volk Volk and then MG34
12 Aug 2014, 16:12 PM
#4
Posts: 738
I generally like building an extra squad against soviets to guard against the typical T2 into shock play, they will need backup against the latter unit but two or so sturm squads can give you some much needed DPS until you get T4 up for obers (especially if you pick a doctrine with no infantry like Special Operations/Elite armour).
12 Aug 2014, 16:23 PM
#5
Posts: 33
I saw Helping-Hans using this strat quite efficient and tried it out myself. 2 Sturm + 2 Volks into MG34, rushing for Luchs or Obersoldaten is really efficient. It is best on maps like semoisky or stalingrad, where you can flank and fight from medium to short range often, where sturmpios excel.
The Luchs is a good option with this build, because you have 2 Sturm to repair them.
The Luchs is a good option with this build, because you have 2 Sturm to repair them.
We love you ... now die
13 Aug 2014, 05:32 AM
#6
Posts: 11
My Standard-BO:
Sturm
Kubel (most of the time gets destroyed at ~t3 mid-game)
Volks
Volks
T3
- Enable Fuel conversion -
Volks (Shreck)
Volks (Shreck)
Raketenwerfer
Volks (+Shreck as soon as my Obersoldaten got their STG's))
- Disable Fuel conversion -
T4
Obersoldaten (IR-STG)
Luchs
Obersoldaten (IR-STG)
- Enable Fuel conversion -
Panther
I use my two Sturmpios to deal heavy damage towards my opponents early infantry units and especially against USF this tactic is very powerful, my Kubel suppresses them and my Sturmpios get on point blank range. There have been times where I squadwiped 2-3 Riflemen squads straight at the start (=gg).
Two early Sturmpios are a good answer against Maxim spam too, once the maxims are outflanked they will be decrewed in seconds and the Kubel has high enough HP to scout the Maxims and their MG-direction.
Sturm
Kubel (most of the time gets destroyed at ~t3 mid-game)
Volks
Volks
T3
- Enable Fuel conversion -
Volks (Shreck)
Volks (Shreck)
Raketenwerfer
Volks (+Shreck as soon as my Obersoldaten got their STG's))
- Disable Fuel conversion -
T4
Obersoldaten (IR-STG)
Luchs
Obersoldaten (IR-STG)
- Enable Fuel conversion -
Panther
I use my two Sturmpios to deal heavy damage towards my opponents early infantry units and especially against USF this tactic is very powerful, my Kubel suppresses them and my Sturmpios get on point blank range. There have been times where I squadwiped 2-3 Riflemen squads straight at the start (=gg).
Two early Sturmpios are a good answer against Maxim spam too, once the maxims are outflanked they will be decrewed in seconds and the Kubel has high enough HP to scout the Maxims and their MG-direction.
22 Aug 2014, 19:14 PM
#7
Posts: 131
While I cannot say I am as good as Romeo or Jesulin, I have had recent success with a heavier T1 build.
I go : Volk, Sturm, Volk, Volk ...this means 5 T1 units (when including first Sturm of course).
The reason for this is I was tired of losing out to early US play (Soviets are not as strong early I find) and also I feel Volks scale very well in late game vs Rifleman and Cons when considering Veterancy. This heavy T1 allows me to cap a bigger portion of the map, hold off any early vehicles (with shrecks), better support for my 2 sturm squads and thus secure more resources.
I usually follow this up with the Battlegroup Truck, I find getting the ISG is best. Then I go straight to T4, for Obers and Panthers.
I dont always do this....but it DOES have the benefit of winning me a large chunk of map early on.
Maybe I am wrong in this....curious as to what you guys think...
I go : Volk, Sturm, Volk, Volk ...this means 5 T1 units (when including first Sturm of course).
The reason for this is I was tired of losing out to early US play (Soviets are not as strong early I find) and also I feel Volks scale very well in late game vs Rifleman and Cons when considering Veterancy. This heavy T1 allows me to cap a bigger portion of the map, hold off any early vehicles (with shrecks), better support for my 2 sturm squads and thus secure more resources.
I usually follow this up with the Battlegroup Truck, I find getting the ISG is best. Then I go straight to T4, for Obers and Panthers.
I dont always do this....but it DOES have the benefit of winning me a large chunk of map early on.
Maybe I am wrong in this....curious as to what you guys think...
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22 Aug 2014, 19:21 PM
#8
Posts: 1144 | Subs: 7
its very risky to go double sturms because theyre so expensive in the early game to reinforce. it all depends on how much economical damage you can do with them. if youre killing 2-3 enemy models per sturm model you lose, then youre ahead in the manpower game.
however sometimes you can get unlucky and you may lose a sturm model in the first volley of an enemy attack and in some situations makes them combat ineffective.
i used to really push the double sturmpioneer build in the early days of WFA but as of late i can handle most situations with the starting sturm and 3-4 volks. the only time i could see where double sturms are more beneficial are when the enemy goes a fast Jeep or perhaps conscript spam (but you can still deal with that using 1 sturm and 3-4 volks).
while sturms counter m3 cars fairly well, t1 also gives the soviets access to snipers which will bleed sturms with no counter bleed.
however sometimes you can get unlucky and you may lose a sturm model in the first volley of an enemy attack and in some situations makes them combat ineffective.
i used to really push the double sturmpioneer build in the early days of WFA but as of late i can handle most situations with the starting sturm and 3-4 volks. the only time i could see where double sturms are more beneficial are when the enemy goes a fast Jeep or perhaps conscript spam (but you can still deal with that using 1 sturm and 3-4 volks).
while sturms counter m3 cars fairly well, t1 also gives the soviets access to snipers which will bleed sturms with no counter bleed.
22 Aug 2014, 20:12 PM
#9
Posts: 65
I usually go for a additional Sturmpio squad if I've chosen a commander without any infantry Call-ins.
If you don't have Fusiliers, Fallschirms they can close the gap between the crappy Volks and the Rambo Obers pretty decent ...., but require much more micro than other units to be effective.
If you don't have Fusiliers, Fallschirms they can close the gap between the crappy Volks and the Rambo Obers pretty decent ...., but require much more micro than other units to be effective.
23 Aug 2014, 02:20 AM
#10
Posts: 196
Personally, I always go for the 3 Volks -> Tech build order. I dislike building a second Sturm for 2 reasons:
1) Cost. The reinforce cost on Sturms means you can end up bleeding manpower really hard in the early came, especially if you want 3 Volks/2 Volks + Kubel.
2) Scaling. Sturmpioneers are a unit that start out incredibly strong, but tend to fall off in the mid-late game as stronger AI weapons hit the field. In contrast to this, Volks are weak early but become very useful later due to the Panzerschreck upgrade. In my experience, it is better to have 3 Volk squads who can start to accumulate veterancy early on, as this gives you a very solid core for your army later in the game.
1) Cost. The reinforce cost on Sturms means you can end up bleeding manpower really hard in the early came, especially if you want 3 Volks/2 Volks + Kubel.
2) Scaling. Sturmpioneers are a unit that start out incredibly strong, but tend to fall off in the mid-late game as stronger AI weapons hit the field. In contrast to this, Volks are weak early but become very useful later due to the Panzerschreck upgrade. In my experience, it is better to have 3 Volk squads who can start to accumulate veterancy early on, as this gives you a very solid core for your army later in the game.
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23 Aug 2014, 02:30 AM
#11
Posts: 824
Personally, I always go for the 3 Volks -> Tech build order. I dislike building a second Sturm for 2 reasons:
1) Cost. The reinforce cost on Sturms means you can end up bleeding manpower really hard in the early came, especially if you want 3 Volks/2 Volks + Kubel.
2) Scaling. Sturmpioneers are a unit that start out incredibly strong, but tend to fall off in the mid-late game as stronger AI weapons hit the field. In contrast to this, Volks are weak early but become very useful later due to the Panzerschreck upgrade. In my experience, it is better to have 3 Volk squads who can start to accumulate veterancy early on, as this gives you a very solid core for your army later in the game.
This^.
I find that late game Sturmpioneers are a big MP drain. The 4 man squad with no AT is a real detriment since, unlike Obers and Falls, their best DPS is very close. 3 Volks, then tech, then MG/Fusiliers are my standard BO.
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23 Aug 2014, 02:43 AM
#12
Posts: 158
I advise against double sturms . Basicly as Jesulin pointed out already they have a high reinforcement cost and expierenced players will focus them down resulting in a hefty MP drain for you.
I rather would invest into doctrinal infantry, which are more cost efficient, because lets face it - sturms dont scale well , while jäger LI / Füsiliere / Mgs do
I rather would invest into doctrinal infantry, which are more cost efficient, because lets face it - sturms dont scale well , while jäger LI / Füsiliere / Mgs do
23 Aug 2014, 11:57 AM
#13
Posts: 824
I advise against double sturms . Basicly as Jesulin pointed out already they have a high reinforcement cost and expierenced players will focus them down resulting in a hefty MP drain for you.
I rather would invest into doctrinal infantry, which are more cost efficient, because lets face it - sturms dont scale well , while jäger LI / Füsiliere / Mgs do
And Obers, never forget the Obers...
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25 Aug 2014, 23:59 PM
#14
Posts: 158
True, however i was trying to point out options for the earlier stages of the game , even tho obers can hit the field pre 10 minutes.
2 Sep 2014, 05:42 AM
#15
Posts: 187
I only go double sturms against Soviets. Why?
1) Sturms can close the distance and win against most Soviet infantry, except for Flamer Penals and Shocks. And they can even win against a charging Shock if in green cover.
2) They absolutely tear up Maxims, moreso than any other support weapon team. And since Maxims are currently a staple of the Soviet meta, it only makes sense. Send a Volks squad into the firing cone. Flank with a sturm.
In early game, avoid fights with single sturm unless you've totally got the drop on a Con or engie squad. Once the second is built, keep them together and they won't bleed much manpower/need to get reinforced as dual sturmpios should "outbleed" your opponent in any given fight (except for charging 2/3 con squads in cover).
1) Sturms can close the distance and win against most Soviet infantry, except for Flamer Penals and Shocks. And they can even win against a charging Shock if in green cover.
2) They absolutely tear up Maxims, moreso than any other support weapon team. And since Maxims are currently a staple of the Soviet meta, it only makes sense. Send a Volks squad into the firing cone. Flank with a sturm.
In early game, avoid fights with single sturm unless you've totally got the drop on a Con or engie squad. Once the second is built, keep them together and they won't bleed much manpower/need to get reinforced as dual sturmpios should "outbleed" your opponent in any given fight (except for charging 2/3 con squads in cover).
4 Sep 2014, 11:31 AM
#16
Posts: 444
I only go double sturms against Soviets. Why?
1) Sturms can close the distance and win against most Soviet infantry, except for Flamer Penals and Shocks. And they can even win against a charging Shock if in green cover.
2) They absolutely tear up Maxims, moreso than any other support weapon team. And since Maxims are currently a staple of the Soviet meta, it only makes sense. Send a Volks squad into the firing cone. Flank with a sturm.
In early game, avoid fights with single sturm unless you've totally got the drop on a Con or engie squad. Once the second is built, keep them together and they won't bleed much manpower/need to get reinforced as dual sturmpios should "outbleed" your opponent in any given fight (except for charging 2/3 con squads in cover).
Also if you use Stum's support package upgrade their repairs on kubelwangons are faster than the damage taken on early infy. Plus u get to build tanks traps and mines or barwires early in game to block off crucial paths quicker while still capping zone
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