[Q] Banning Luftwaffe out of Tournaments in teamgames

Dearest community.

As tournament organizer, I need to ban certain things in order to make the competitive play more enjoyable / balanced. Cause I can't mod the game, my only options are banning certain commanders.



Case Luftwaffe.

Luftwaffe can be a very good doctrine, and without OKW it's just a good doctrine, nothing more nothing less. The problem with playing OST+OKW, is that it can literally feed the OKW player fuel for the entire game. In that way, certain tanks can come on the field much earlier than in a normal game without the Luftwaffe commander.

YES.
This also has setbacks for the player who plays luftwaffe. He has to give manpower for these fuelcrates. Agreed. But a Kingtiger on the field around 15 mins, isn't ok for competitive play.
I'm talking about games where the fuels are next to the base (Semois), or in larger teamgames on static maps.

Relic nerfed the Opel Trucks so they only give resources to the player who picked the doctrine. That's for a reason. And I'm thinking of banning that commander for the same reason.
Resources are for the player itself, not for your fellow players.

Anyway, I hope there will be some constructive opinions on this.
It's not about LUFTWAFFEL OP OMG BAN ISU BAN JAGDTIGER OP OMG
It's about the fact that you can feed the other players, which has major consequences on the game.

So;



Thank you.

e: Bulgakov; It's not because we lost against you that I'm making this topic. Yesterday, we had a similar conversation about it in our clan. Good game btw

Well. After all soviets could quickly attack the sectors and grab all the fuel/munition supplies. But I found out that americans can't pick it up especially when they have early game advantage and can quickly steal all of this resources.

Well. After all soviets could quickly attack the sectors and grab all the fuel/munition supplies. But I found out that americans can't pick it up especially when they have early game advantage and can quickly steal all of this resources.

Oh yea, all these fuels you'll steal with OKW FLAK truck sitting on it.

Well. After all soviets could quickly attack the sectors and grab all the fuel/munition supplies. But I found out that americans can't pick it up especially when they have early game advantage and can quickly steal all of this resources.

We're talking about games where opponents are evenly matched, let's say midskilled guys.
These players don't drop the fuel when it's not defended.

+ On maps like semois it's not an option to 'quickly grab the fuel'.

Oh yea, all these fuels you'll steal with OKW FLAK truck sitting on it.

They can't set it up that quickly.

We're talking about games where opponents are evenly matched, let's say midskilled guys.
These players don't drop the fuel when it's not defended.

+ On maps like semois it's not an option to 'quickly grab the fuel'.

First of all semoisky shouldn't even be at map pool due a lack of space for vehicles (that is my opinion)

First of all semoisky shouldn't even be at map pool due a lack of space for vehicles (that is my opinion)

That's not the question.

Soviets also have lend-lease commander.

I actually like commanders that allow for interesting teamplay.

I guess it's okay to ban it for tourneys since you can actually use it in double ost game by making your teammate get panzer iv like 6-8 mins into the game when the first tank normally pops out 13 mins

I agree with kreatiir that luftwaffe should be banned. And @armatak, lend lease commander fuel drop ranges from 20-40 fuel at the cost of 100 munitions and it appears from enemy base which it can be shot down easily. The luftwaffe has much more advantage as its 200 manpower for 5 fuel drops(50 fuel),planes flies from your base and drop the supplies safely.

NO dont ban him

Even on Semosky the commander is balanced in my opinion. since the constant droping of fuel will drain mp form the ost player and the king tiger is a mp issue for the OKW player too and if both players drain their mp to one sigle unit i guess you should be able to break through their lines by min 15 since light/heavy arty will be available sooner.

For the resource issue I would suggest that resources infact are a team matter and dont belong to the player. Yes the player can spend them but if he spends 200mp on a cache it will benifit the team.

Guess Opel got nerved, to refere to your post kreatiir, because the other team members would profit from a commander ability even if they didnt pick the coresponding commander.

Forgot to mention Sovietindustry but guess you allready banned that one...

They can't set it up that quickly.

Actually, they can. Conversion truck->fuel conversion->flak truck at 8 min.

Soviets also have lend-lease commander.

I actually like commanders that allow for interesting teamplay.

Super early KTs are not very interesting.

Actually, they can. Conversion truck->fuel conversion->flak truck at 8 min.

True, it's possible. But you're gonna have a real problem with a small army if you're both building trucks and fuel drops instead of mans. The main point is that no decent player is gonna let the allies pick up their fuel. I agree with you on that.




It's a tricky one. I think Kreatiir might have a point about tourneys not having this option.

On the other hand though, it comes with the downside of no Tiger, which means only one player on the axis team would be able to build supertanks. Could that be considered balanced?

and if drop is coming, team should concentrate on def one side, so enemy can make rush on other side of map, where you have small army, couse drop takes 200 MP

This is a tricky question I think. Personally I believe that no commanders should be banned in tournaments except temporarily if clearly broken (old elite troops with tiger ace for example).

Assault support Opel blitz was likely corrected because it benefited both the OH player and the OKW player equally with no real downside. This is clearly not the case here. I like team games precisely because several commanders and strategies are viable that are never used 1v1. The fast KT leaves the axis mp starved for the early game and should be easily recognizable, foregoing standard AA trucks and the like should leave the allies able to respond with several ATGs after a dominating early game.

There is also the "sliding slope" to consider. Where does this thinking go next? Soviet industry too powerful? Abandoning of us tanks allowing an otherwise support focused ussr partner quick vehicles? Not saying that either of these are necessarily a problem, simply providing possible examples.

I for one am for anything that moves away from the "tiger is the only doctrine to use" meta.

I've fought this several times and the ability

A) is completely safe, as it comes in from your side of the map
B) 200 manpower for 50 fuel is a net gain in resources. One minute of Manpower is what, 300+ MP? While one minute of fuel is usually 20-30. To compare, the Soviet fuel drop costs 100 munitions and drops only 30 fuel.

I think it should cost more or be forced to fly from enemy territory like the soviet fuel drop, so the enemy can at least have the chance to shoot it down


As for the thread topic, yes it should be banned.

Dearest community.

As tournament organizer, I need to ban certain things in order to make the competitive play more enjoyable / balanced. Cause I can't mod the game, my only options are banning certain commanders.



Case Luftwaffe.

Luftwaffe can be a very good doctrine, and without OKW it's just a good doctrine, nothing more nothing less. The problem with playing OST+OKW, is that it can literally feed the OKW player fuel for the entire game. In that way, certain tanks can come on the field much earlier than in a normal game without the Luftwaffe commander.

YES.
This also has setbacks for the player who plays luftwaffe. He has to give manpower for these fuelcrates. Agreed. But a Kingtiger on the field around 15 mins, isn't ok for competitive play.
I'm talking about games where the fuels are next to the base (Semois), or in larger teamgames on static maps.

Relic nerfed the Opel Trucks so they only give resources to the player who picked the doctrine. That's for a reason. And I'm thinking of banning that commander for the same reason.
Resources are for the player itself, not for your fellow players.

Anyway, I hope there will be some constructive opinions on this.
It's not about LUFTWAFFEL OP OMG BAN ISU BAN JAGDTIGER OP OMG
It's about the fact that you can feed the other players, which has major consequences on the game.

So;

Should the Luftwaffe Commander be banned in future teamgame tournaments? (4v4 Ladder, The Underdog Tournament, Autumn Cup, ...)

Thank you.

e: Bulgakov; It's not because we lost against you that I'm making this topic. Yesterday, we had a similar conversation about it in our clan. Good game btw

I can't understand, that Russians hadn't the Commander.

In 1944 the Germans were poor on fuel and Luftwaffe.

I don't know if this is a glitch or a ninja patch or if it's specific to Americans but I was unable to pick up any of the fuel my opponent dropped in after chasing him off the fuel point. There was no change in mouse icon to indicate I was able to pick up the resources (the hand icon like when you hover over a dropped weapon).

Can anyone verify this? Are you able to pick it up with Soviets? Will look further into this tonight.

I don't know if this is a glitch or a ninja patch or if it's specific to Americans but I was unable to pick up any of the fuel my opponent dropped in after chasing him off the fuel point. There was no change in mouse icon to indicate I was able to pick up the resources (the hand icon like when you hover over a dropped weapon).

Can anyone verify this? Are you able to pick it up with Soviets? Will look further into this tonight.

Yes you can.
I think it's abug.