US faction too effective?

No they are no, maybe in 1vs1 but in 2vs2 they are not!! especially the stuka is a hard counter for the shooters. But okey ... The Jackson has the best Maingun of all ami Tanks BUT on small maps he is simply useless. More over the German flaktruck is stronger then the Amis.


There need to be many nerves in all fractions !!

Second question: where are replays ?

My opponent certainly thinks USF is over-performing.

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  Adam

  Only God Blobs (aka R33k)

  Short game's a good game

  by: ThoseDeafMutes map: La Gleize Breakout

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Edit: Why don't details show up for the game? Wierd, my other uploaded replays did.

Perhaps one should say in the posts, if referring to 1v1 or 2v2 ...

in 1v1 I do not know, but in 2v2 the USF are in no way superior .... at least on my lower / middle level .... I think even here the OKW have a clear advantage.

USF is definitely over-performing, pretty sure Relic is aware of this. However I'd say Ostheer is the strongest faction, at least in 1v1.

Ost > USF > Sov > OKW currently in 1v1.

Allies >>>>>>>>>> Axis in team games as of the time of posting this.

I disagree with you Ciez. Many factors such as maps, positions, commanders. This may be your opinion but I see very strong OKW in this latest patch playing in a defensive manner.

However I'd say Ostheer is the strongest faction, at least in 1v1.

Funny, that is the exact opposite of what the latest opinion poll showed.

Only 6% agree with you that Ost is strongest in 1v1.

And if ypu understand statistical analysis, you will recognise that the two separate questions of "strongest", and "weakest", form a control question situation, which increases statistical validity of the sum total of both questions (which are edsentially the same wuestion, just rephrased as a control). That places, again, Ost as the overall worst faction in 1v1, as a net aggregate of both questions.

So yeah, you might want to rethink your position, or atleast recognise it is infact the complete opposite of what the overwhelming majority of constituency of the poll thought.

http://www.coh2.org/topic/20222/faction-strength

170+ voters, so its a pretty considerable representation of a community as small as this.
Considering an active competitive player base in multiplayer of only some few thousands, it comes remarkably close to fulfilling the general minimum of a 10% sample. And for it being a simple unadvertised forum poll, its really quite impressive how many players (and hence representation for validity), have their opinion presented in it. It carries a remarkable degree of validity (especially as it has the control question format, whether deliberately by the poll maker, or not).

Maybe you are losing touch with the common man, eh?
With this enormous degree of difference to such a significant majority, it sort of scientifically indicates a rather strong element of personal bias on your part, though you are of course, free to have whatever opinion you see fit. Basically, in a larger and more controlled sample, your position would be considered statistically so offbase as to be eliminated from, or given less value, in the overall results.

As relating to OP, the poll, as a result of the control nature of the questions, but without omitting possible "beligerent/troll" (assuming those to be equal, and not deducting their validity as a deviation from norms) votes, shows overall the opinion of 170+ voters to place 1v1 faction performance at:

US>Sov>OKW>Ost.

Its a good poll. It has a control question element, and the turnout of voters is large enough for it to be considered statistically representative. It is a very good portrayal of player opinion and most likely the best one we are likely to get for this period of post launch opinion (pending balance changes and getting "used" to new factions and meta, ofc). But there has been no significant patching of balance since the poll. Its very good, and we are lucky to have it (again, thanks to CoH2.org community).

As to the degree of difference in that lineup, Ost and OKW are very close. So close infact, that it might be possible that OKW actually rates lower than Ost, depending on how you value the figures. Statistically, and with the means at hand, it is fair to say that Ost amd OKW tie for last spot. Could really swing wither way, or equal, its that close. Sov is however significantly ahead of either of these, and US, even further ahead of Sov, than Sov is to Ost/OKW.

Perhaps one should say in the posts, if referring to 1v1 or 2v2 ...

in 1v1 I do not know, but in 2v2 the USF are in no way superior .... at least on my lower / middle level .... I think even here the OKW have a clear advantage.

It's 2v2 and 1v1 only.

I honestly dont think that the US is super strong now. They feel like a one trick faction to me. You have 1 strategy you always do, and your doctrine of choice complements it. All you can go for at the beginning is Rifles. Thats it. No non doctrinal, viable side - options. Ane because US always does the same, you can generally prepare. Not saying that its easy to win then, but you know what you will be facing. 80% of the time.

Nice try, but a poll of the general community doesn't mean anything (especially with how out of touch the majority of this community is with current faction balance) - plus I was merely stating my opinion. Ostheer is still an extremely strong faction (they were significantly stronger than Soviet 1v1 right before WFA). Ost vs USF basically comes down to map and whether MGs can be fully effective but I'd say the match-up is like 60-40 in favor of Ost. Proper MG/Gren play is extremely difficult for USF to contend with unless they're on Stalingrad or another really urban map. If you disagree I'd be happy to play some 1v1s against you - me as Ost, you can play whichever allied faction suits you.

Anyways, I don't know why I'm bothering to respond to this post, you're very obviously a bad troll and we've both asked each other in PM to ignore the other person. So don't expect me to reply to any more of your posts, even when you're trying to belittle me.

TLDR - Go away Nullist. You were banned for a reason.

Nice try, but I explained at great length why the poll is remarkably valid.
170+ voters is an enormous turnout for a game as small as this, and the poll maker included a control question situation (whether deliberately or not, I dont know, but it functions as such nonetheless).

Its very valid. Definately the best indicator of opinion that we currently have, from any source.
If you have a better one, go ahead and feel free to link it.
Id love to see it.

Only 6%, nominally, agree with you that Ost is the strongest (which is compromised and statistically questioned by the high quotient of voters who also vote Ost as the WEAKEST in 1v1). Accounting for those, the actual agreement rate with your position, comes out at just above 3%.

Nothing I said above, is "trolling", but nice try, again, to paint a factual and rational explanation and analysis as anything but that. I just stated it how it is.

You state that " how out of touch the majority of this community is with current faction balance".
Nice insult and disregarding of the community basis. Who are you to claim that the majority is out of touch, when you are infact shown to be out of touch with the opinion of 94-97% of the playerbase? Sort of pot valling kettle black, isnt it?

Im not Nullist, btw. And yet again, that is just another attempt to sideline a rational and exhaustively explained argument.
That, of itself, is trolling on your part.

You are free to have the opinion you want, of course, even though the overwhelming majority

as in 94-97%

disagree with you.

Good luck with that.
Dont blame me for point that out. Its your opinion, not mine. Its just the facts as we know them, atm.

Right now the US faction is more easy to play than SOV's, just A move.

Rifleman win soo easy vs grens and volks. You will lost only if you make various mistakes.

Nice try, but I explained at great length why the poll is remarkably valid.
170+ voters is an enormous turnout for a game as small as this, and the poll maker included a control question situation (whether deliberately or not, I dont know, but it functions as such nonetheless).

Its very valid. Definately the best indicator of opinion that we currently have, from any source.
If you have a better one, go ahead and feel free to link it.
Id love to see it.

Only 6%, nominally, agree with you that Ost is the strongest (which is compromised and statistically questioned by the high quotient of voters who also vote Ost as the WEAKEST in 1v1). Accounting for those, the actual agreement rate with your position, comes out at just above 3%.

Nothing I said above, is "trolling", but nice try, again, to paint a factual and rational explanation and analysis as anything but that. I just stated it how it is.

You state that " how out of touch the majority of this community is with current faction balance".
Nice insult and disregarding of the community basis. Who are you to claim that the majority is out of touch, when you are infact shown to be out of touch with the opinion of 94-97% of the playerbase? Sort of pot valling kettle black, isnt it?

Im not Nullist, btw. And yet again, that is just another attempt to sideline a rational and exhaustively explained argument.
That, of itself, is trolling on your part.

You are free to have the opinion you want, of course, even though the overwhelming majority

as in 94-97%

disagree with you.

Good luck with that.
Dont blame me for point that out. Its your opinion, not mine. Its just the facts as we know them, atm.

Your poll doesn't really prove anything. Argumentum ad populum.

Moreover, who do you think you are to ask someone to ignore you and then try to pick a petty fight on forums over a completely opinion based question? Pretty hypocritical of you tbh. What do you have against Ciez anyways? It's not the first time I've seen you try to pick a fight with him.

On topic: if win rates are to be believed, which they should be since they're the most objective data we have unless Relic provides us with actual faction v faction statistics, then usf is definitely too strong 1v1. To be fair though, this data would need more time to normalize after the most recent patch which heavily buffed okw and nerfed usf.

Your poll doesn't really prove anything. Argumentum ad populum.

Vs

if rates are to be believed, which they should be since they're the most objective data we have.

Nice first post contradiction, new poster dude.

First you call the poll argumentum ad populum (which is silly), and then you cite the poll yourself as the most objective data we have. Ok.

And its not "my" poll. I didnt make it. Though it is a very good and valid one, thanks to the guys formatting of the questions, and a huge voter participation.

The poll has 170+ respondents, which is huge for a community this size, and carries a control question.

And Ive never said to Ciez that I would ignore his posts, or requested vice versa.
No idea what your point in your post was with that. Or what made you think that.

I was just, factually, pointing out that 94-97% of voters disagree with his assessment that Ost is strongest in 1v1 (lol).
Infact Ost is voted completely the opposite, as the weakest in 1v1. Sort of quite a difference between his opinion and the almost complete majority of everyone else, if you know what I mean...

As ontopic, the poll does indeed portrayba very strong representation of US as strongest 1v1 faction.

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Nice first post contradiction, new poster dude.

First you call the poll argumentum ad populum (which is silly), and then you cite the poll yourself as the most objective data we have. Ok.

The poll has 170+ respondents, which is huge for a community this size, and carries a control question.

And Ive never said to Ciez that I would ignore his posts, or requested vice versa.
No idea what your point in your post was with that. Or what made you think that.

I was just, factually, pointing out that 94-97% of voters disagree with his assessment that Ost is strongest in 1v1 (lol).
Infact Ost is voted completely the opposite, as the weakest in 1v1. Sort of quite a difference between his opinion and the almost complete majority of everyone else, if you know what I mean...

As ontopic, the poll does indeed portrayba very strong representation of US as strongest 1v1 faction.

Lol.. I never cited the poll, I was referring to win rates. Derp da derp.

Speaking of contradicting... remember that time you claimed to be part of the beta? Did you forget about this post of yours... http://www.coh2.org/topic/18587/one-week-from-release-and-still-no-official-okw-gameplay/post/166816

Seems legit bro.

Keep in mind that Ciez plays at a skill level that like maybe ~5% of the game's population plays at if not less.

Ostheer vs US may favor Ostheer at the highest level. The majority of people don't play a the highest level. Thus the poll could easily be skewed based on the player base's average skill level. It's his experiences that guide him.

Also that poll is like 18 days old. There's been two balance patches since then. Patches that have nerfed the M15 AA Half-track's range and troublesome call-ins like Veteran Riflemen and WC51 Jeeps.

This thread was basically a plea from a community member to get the input of "high level players" on the state of US balance. The poll is not relevant to this discussion.

If you wanted to make a thread about how Ostheer is too difficult to play or you perceive it as weak in 1v1s then I'm sure the poll could be valuable there. Although it is a little out of date at this point.

I play mostly as US and consistently lose to Jesulin, Ginnungagap, VindicareX, Cataclaw, Luvnest, Para, Jove, the list goes on. So it follows that if you're sufficiently skilled, you will win.

If the US is overperforming, it's not by much in my opinion.

Nice playercard) <- not sarcasm.

I feel the same, that if the US is stronger, it's not by a lot. I can even enjoy losing to a US player too, there's no mg spam to stale it up.




But still, the mega blobs and E8s do spoil things. Are the blobs a result of faction design or is it because rifles stronk so build rifles?

I was just, factually, pointing out that 94-97% of voters disagree with his assessment that Ost is strongest in 1v1 (lol).
Infact Ost is voted completely the opposite, as the weakest in 1v1. Sort of quite a difference between his opinion and the almost complete majority of everyone else, if you know what I mean...

As ontopic, the poll does indeed portrayba very strong representation of US as strongest 1v1 faction.

You are right, the OPINION of the community is that US is strong on 1v1. But you have to take into account that it MIGHT not be actually correct.
We are not taking into account the balance difference on different skill levels, where as Ciez stated perfectly, a good MG micro proves to be worlds of difference on the US match up. If both factions are played at their most, which comes ahead ?


IMO: the ease of use of US early game vs the "effort" OH has to make, don´t correlate. This is opposite on the vehicle play during mid-late game.

The poll agrees that US is strongest in 1v1, by a significant margin of votes.

Of total 170+ voters, 94-97% disagree with Ciez's clear statement in this thread that Ost is strongest in 1v1, and infact vote Ost as the weakest, which is the polar opposite of the claim he made here (which though it is irrelevant to the thread, he did infact make anyways).

Anyways, I agree its not relevant to thread, except to point out the almost complete disagreement of community vote with Ciez's statement, as shown by a very valid poll. He expressed his opinion, and I answered it with the poll results. There is really nothing more or less to it.

Take from that what you will

Lets return to discussing US balance, as is the purpose of the thread, and incidentally the poll agrees with US being the strongest in 1v1, so that was relevant.

The poll agrees that US is strongest in 1v1, by a significant margin of votes.

Of total 170+ voters, 94-97% disagree with Ciez's clear statement in this thread that Ost is strongest in 1v1, and infact vote Ost as the weakest, which is the polar opposite of the claim he made here (which though it is irrelevant to the thread, he did infact make anyways).

Anyways, I agree its not relevant to thread, except to point out the almost complete disagreement of community vote with Ciez's statement, as shown by a very valid poll. He expressed his opinion, and I answered it with the poll results. There is really nothing more or less to it.

Take from that what you will

Lets return to discussing US balance, as is the purpose of the thread, and incidentally the poll agrees with US being the strongest in 1v1, so that was relevant.

It seems my question as to you how can justify trying to claim that you were part of the private alpha, after admitting that you weren't even in the public alpha has been dodge'ddddddddddd. I eagerly await your response.

On topic, I personally think usf is too strong still, for pretty much all the reasons already listed, but I'd be inclined to give the opinion of a top player more weight than you do. What rank are you anyways? You always harp about other people's player cards but always hide your own, hypocrite.

Just remember guys Troll can only survive if you feed him.

The poll agrees that US is strongest in 1v1, by a significant margin of votes.

Of total 170+ voters, 94-97% disagree with Ciez's clear statement in this thread that Ost is strongest in 1v1, and infact vote Ost as the weakest, which is the polar opposite of the claim he made here (which though it is irrelevant to the thread, he did infact make anyways).

Anyways, I agree its not relevant to thread, except to point out the almost complete disagreement of community vote with Ciez's statement, as shown by a very valid poll. He expressed his opinion, and I answered it with the poll results. There is really nothing more or less to it.

Take from that what you will

Lets return to discussing US balance, as is the purpose of the thread, and incidentally the poll agrees with US being the strongest in 1v1, so that was relevant.

First of all, I have more than sufficient evidence to support my personal belief that you are in fact Nullist. This includes, but is not limited to the following:

1 - You both have the same cadence/tone in your posts.

2 - Your undying/relentless/pointless/unprovoked trolling of nearly every one of my posts - I seriously cannot recall a single time in which you've had anything constructive to say with regard to something I've said.

3 - Your IP address is close enough to his to reveal that you both use the same ISP, and are more than likely in the same geographic location.

4 - You both use the word "efficacy" like it is going out of style - I've never seen/heard anyone else use that word.

5 - Your argument about Soviet weapon team durability is basically his copy/pasted, despite it being one of the weakest/most flawed/most ignorant arguments that I've ever witnessed in my life.

Clear enough yet?

Second of all, I made my statement about Ostheer being the strongest 1v1 faction, currently, because it was a direct reply to the OP, in which he stated: "Wermaht is the weakest faction crippled by its over priced tech system." So despite your, failed, attempt to try and claim that my post was off topic. It was, absolutely and irrefutably, directed at the OP. It is completely relevant to the thread. Sorry.

Third, my claim is rooted in countless hours of 1v1 and team-game play with and against the best players that this community has to offer (would love to see your playercard bud). Yours is grounded in a three week old, opinion based, poll of the general community. Further, there have been multiple patches since the date of that poll being held - including numerous, very significant nerfs to the USF. Sure, USF probably had an advantage over Ost back then - especially with how absolutely ridiculous the M15 was - but your poll is completely irrelevant to my statement (and to this thread entirely) - which was strictly pertaining to the current state of the live game at the time of posting. Not a month ago.


Finally, I'm going to ask you officially to just leave me alone. As I stated before, I cannot think of a single time that you've posted anything constructive in response to one of my posts. My personal opinion (based on the summation of my experiences with you) is that you're an insufferable troll, but maybe we just simply don't see eye-to-eye on anything - in which case it is better for everyone if we just ignore each other. So please, as of this moment, just ignore me and I'll ignore you. Simple, right? I'm sure you'll quote this post in, yet another, pathetic attempt to get in a jab at me - because you're that kind of petulant man-child. Don't expect any further responses from me, it's only a matter of time before the rest of the community sees you for what you really are, you're not as transparent as you seem to think you are. Find something better to do with your life.

P.S. - ROFL at you trying to claim that you were part of Relic's beta (in one of your more recent stabs directed towards me) when you were, self-admittedly, not. (Thanks McFarland)

"For me, the single and only exposure I have had to the release, has been from this site, the ingame splash screens, and a single entry on the biblical IGN PC "Games to be released soon" listing. Thats it."

Not to mention the fact that I'm one of the moderators of the beta...

#Rekt