US faction too effective?

So sticking to the topic of overperforming US units, and from playing lots of 2v2 and 1v1.

Riflemen:
Potentially doing too much damage at long range
Being able to dual wield the LMGs gives them too much DPS (make it so they can only have 1 LMG and then have a BAR aswell)
Defensive stance turning riflemen in an open field into super men with high suppression,needs removing or heavily nerfing

AA HT:
Still a stupid unit, long range high damage AA gun, and crazy mobile suppression. Use on fringes of map away from AT gun, enjoy easy majority map control.

Not sure about the E8 since i haven't used it much
Not sure if they've address the off-maps yet, but some were useless and others would kill full health super tanks.

M8 greyhound:
Canister is very dumb and can just 1 shot squads

WC51 super jeep:
ridiculous against OKW, same problem as with the M3 scout car (probaly more of a problem with OKW than USF though)

There is problems with the other factions aswell, but that would be for another thread (OKW early and mid game espeacially against soviets t1 or t2, ostheer teching cost ect.)

OP: If you didn't want general opinion, you should use pm.

I can't comment on whether US is too effective. I haven't played as them and I've only played against them a few times.

I will say that at my skill level, I have a vastly more comfortable game as OST as opposed to Sov. So, I support Ciez in that regard.

I also find that USA tends to get pretty weak in some of the team games.

I have a hard time understanding, now and before, why CoH players will say outside of the game that Allies are the stronger, yet in the game I'll watch them get slaughter. Just looking at the numbers alone you can see all Axis tools are better than Allied equivalents (if any exist). Sometimes it seems like the opinion is that if Grenadiers get beat, then whatever beat them is OP. 240 is pretty cheap for soldiers, so I don't see why they end up being the standard everything else is judged on. The times I have felt overwhelmed by Allies have been few and far between and to be honest, I think that those games have been more about who I was against rather than what faction they chose.

Edited. I will just report instead.

No point in responding to lies, dishonesty, provocation and hate from an account that was created "magically" yesterday and which has only attacked and insulted me with its every post since.

I can respond and negate everything you stated above, but doing so in a protracted public setting just destroys the thread and community, and furthermore I have no interest in talking with "someone" (probably a throeaway attack-alt) whos clear only purpose is insulting, lying and attacking me.

Please stop derailing and trying to pick fights.

OKW best and strongest Faction

Aka, you have no way of justifying your incessant bullshit. Nice. Please point out where I'm lying when directly quoting your own words. Create more straw men pls. I'd be happy to hear your explanation via pm. But I'm sure you don't have one.

I think I've more than made my point in this thread. McFarland out.

back off.

As amusing as I find McFarland's detective work to be (given Cannonade's consistent hostile behavior towards me) I must echo sheepeh's sentiment.

Back off.

This thread has been derailed enough (admittedly I played a role in that). I will personally make sure that any further posts directed at this off-topic discussion will be reported to admins of the site.

And if I screw up and make another off-topic post in this thread... well you guys can have a field day spam reporting me to the admins

Back on topic please.

Basically the combination of LMG Grens, MGs, PaK40s and Tiger is extremely potent.

Ost vs USF is a difficult fight for the Ost player, don't get me wrong. It is certainly an uphill battle in the early game, but once your MG42s force a couple retreats and you get your LMGs equipped things become a lot more bearable. This is further helped by the availability of the 251 for mobile/forward reinforcement.

Finally the USF AT gun has weak penetration compared to the ZiS, and they don't have a tank that can actually soak hits from a Tiger like the T34/85s or IS-2 can. (Generally Soviets, in 1v1, kill Tigers with Mark + ZiS while T34/85s soak damage) Jacksons are remarkably strong, I love them, but they simply cannot contend with the sheer firepower of a pair of properly positioned PaK40s - especially once one of them gets Vet 1 (which happens very quickly).

Currently I feel like neither the Soviets nor the USF have the capability to go toe-to-toe with a properly managed Ostheer late game army (LMG Grens, MGs, PaK40s + Tiger). The trick/difficulty is managing the MGs and PaK40s, there isn't very much margin for error unfortunately.

This, I think, is the primary reason (also the M15/Elite Rifle nerfs, among other things has been huge - the poll is a few patches old) for the difference in opinion between myself and others. Ostheer, played to near perfection, is highly potent - unfortunately achieving this level of play is difficult to say the least.

I really hope this post does not come off as super ego ridden. I hope that, by now, everyone knows that I spend a lot of time on stream/YouTube trying to help people improve their play.

+1

This is exactly the state of balance in my opinion for Ostheer vs. US.

I think I found the way to deal with US faction and blobing and it was thanks to CieZ suggestion, so in a way this topic payed off.

I am using double MG strat in such a way that one covers another + ISG for some artillery and so far it works, than I tech Jagdpanzer as against US it works splendid. Commander with PaK43 emplacement helps as well. Late game Stuka acts as a surprise! weapon if I got the fuel.

So yeah, cheers CieZ

Faced that down lastnight Oz and it was tough, admittedly. It was that dense urban map though and we managed to effect a sudden brutal breakthrough.

It didn't help US in our game though (random team mate) as I stayed fairly mobile, not trying to bunker down into one place and did a lot of flanking. Even smoke grenades wasn't enough as I simply moved MG34 back when necessary. Oh and I pre built a fair amount of sandbags to give my units cover.

no offence but double mg is probably the most obvious choice against US

Non taken.

I think US are more than fine. The only thing that needs looking at are definately the US AA truck, Rifleman performance especially at long range and Sherman overperforming vs infantry AND tanks This is because the panther is not doing its job i suppose.

I feel like the US is arguably the best 1v1 faction in the game right now, though not by a huge enough margin to warrant a lot of the complaints I've been seeing. The US has a lot of strengths in that they're great at taking territory but, but they have a hard time keeping it for prolonged periods of time. I just want to give my two cents about the faction as a whole:

1) The entire faction is built around riflemen. If they get nerfed, they have to be extremely well-thought out and reasonable nerfs. We can't have them turning panzergrenadier bad, or else the US faction will be the laughing stock of the game. I believe that the problem is blobbing, not the riflemen squad itself. A better change would just be a increased received accuracy to clumped units as others have suggested, which would both make rifle blobs more reasonable and improve the entire game's tactical value overall. Considering rifle blobs are basically the only "OP" complaint I see levied against the US faction besides the AA halftrack, I don't see why anybody would disagree with this.

2) AA Halftrack is great against Ostheer and good against Oberkommando. I'm more convinced that the reason it's so good against Ostheer is because of a deficiency with them not because America is OP. Keep in mind that this thing is 60 fuel and one of the few units people actually tend to build besides riflemen. It should be effective for its cost. I'm going to echo what I said with riflemen about overnerfs, because Relic has a tendency to overdo it with their balance changes. People don't need another reason to build nothing but one unit type.

3) ...why is their HMG 280 manpower instaed of 240? Especially after they got nerfed (excuse me, "bug-fixed"), it doesn't seem any better or worse than the MG42, except it comes out later. Maybe someone can correct me on this, because I personally don't see much difference in performance.

4) Pack howitzer is utterly worthless, but everyone knows that already. Either it needs a cost and population reduction to a normal mortar squad's, or (preferably) just gets a buff to be worth a damn. This thing had amazing AoE in the alpha and was a monster of an artillery piece. Now all it does is make a cool whooshing noise.

5) Is it just me, or are Shermans worse against tanks than T34/76's? It's like the vet 1 radio net ability is the sole reason Shermans are good, forcing you to spam them like riflemen. Their HE shell is odd, also. It has tremendous splash and damage, but it barely ever hits even when stationary. It really needs an accuracy increase and a splash decrease to make it more consistent.

6) The supervise ability on the captain is just stupid and adds more micro to an already micro-intensive faction. Nobody used the Wehrmacht Officer in the first game, so I have no idea why Relic thought people would enjoy a similar unit in the sequel. Is the captain supposed to be AT support, or a babysitter? Just cut down on the tank build times a little and get rid of supervise.

7) Rifle company is so good it invalidates every other American doctrine, in my opinion. The veteran riflemen ability could use some sort of change.

8) Rear Echelon troops need mines. There is quite literally no purpose to this unit whatsoever since volley fire got nerfed (it was stupid anyway). Vehicle crews can repair themselves, and US don't get sandbags except in one doctrine.

9) Having to pay 5 population just to have any sort of healing utility at all is annoying.

10) Last but not least, US early game is just flat-out boring because the only unit you can build is riflemen. No wonder people blob.

Honorable mention: Pershing. Pretty please?

If they never give us a Pershing, the least they could do is give us a 3" AT gun.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3-inch_Gun_M5

Too many calls for USF nurf, Remember USF has the weakest late games. a very campy Axis player(s) can easily hold out until the heavies arrive. Bare in mind that USF also is the only faction that lacks a strong non doc arty unit.

IMO USF is not the faction to worry about. Soviets are a much greater challenge.

Honestly with all these people wanting to nurf USF. they is no excuse to put of the possibility of a heavy tank being added. Since axis player want to leave USF with NO advantages in the early game. Lets not even mention USF late game.