Panther video test 1v1

What Corp.Shephard said.

Still, even in such unfavorable positions for the Panther - both tanks facing their rear at each other - you would think a dedicated anti tank unit, costing 175 fuel and requiring high teching costs like the Panther, would at least beat a single T-34/85. Add to that, that the Panther barely deals damage versus infantry and shades in comparison with the AI capabilities of T-34/85 etc. its overall cost effectiveness as a unit is embarrassing.

This shows a major deficit in the Panther which is the rate of fire. It actually reloads as slow as an IS-2. High penetration values don´t help you, if the dps is lower than that of a Panzer IV, which most likely is going to penetrate a medium tank also.

panthers are best at max range. like shephard said, their pen is typically high enough that they dont benefit from getting closer. the enemy tanks will benefit from getting close to the panther. not moving lets tanks get close and/or get to the panthers rear armor (which is lower than most tanks).

id say kiting is your best option considering the other tanks will have the same accuracy and scatter penalties.

Actually since all American tanks have a 0.75 accuracy on the move, there might be a lot more merit to staying still than chasing/backpedaling/getting into a moving battle (though the M36 and M10 have a small reload penalty too it doesn't cover the bonus).

Though on the bright side, the low RoF of the Panther is kind of a blessing in disguise- its fairly easy to guesstimate how long it is to the next shot and give it a stop order before it fires before resuming movement.

Also it's surprising how much better the Command Panther feels just from the increased sight range. Allowing the normal Panther to spot for itself, I think, would go a long way towards making it more attractive for the Wehr faction.

Why don't they just switch the costs for teching BP2 and building T3 like was suggested in a post a bit back. if it came 1-2 minutes faster as Ostheer it might be useful. Now when it comes out you've gimped yourself by skipping T3 and there are already call in armours running amok everywhere.

Ok you can get T4 in long games or team games but still it weakens your force considerably getting there.

Tiger everygame is obviously not optimal design.

Another point is that any slight change in height in the ground makes it miss. I missed at least 5 shots straight on a disabled KV8 from mid range on Minsk pocket before I realised what was going on.

Wrong.

If you roll a hit, it will always hit.

If you scored a hit by a miss and good scatter roll, THAT can be stopped by terrain.

Wrong.

If you roll a hit, it will always hit.

If you scored a hit by a miss and good scatter roll, THAT can be stopped by terrain.

No really. It was probably more like 7 shots it missed, there was an SU85 behind it so I wasn't too keen on manouevering. The shots hit the ground. This is on Minsk, not Hill. The change in elevation was barely perceptible.

The KV8 was in capping mode and seems stuck in it (maybe it can't disable that in combat. (I've never built a KV8).Maybe that means that it was attacking ground as the KV8 was not in combat.

Oh my god, this test...

The panthers strengths are mobility, long range, high penetration and thick frontal armor. You can't say a unit under performs based on a video where the unit is handled exactly opposite of how it should be handled in game.

Test is silly, but it shows again Panthers main weakness, which is obviously not the weak rear armor but the low DPS because of an unusual high reload speed.

Combined with an accuracy issue on long range this explains why the Panther doesn't perform as great as it should even when using it properly with front facing forward and from long range, because the durability bonus through good armor (although there is some RNG factor of course) gets eaten up by the fact that it needs very long to destroy enems tanks as well. The good penetration on it is overkill against most tanks, whereas against heavy tanks it is not high enough to become really dangerous to them because of the low DPS.

I think if they improved reload time and accuracy a bit the Panther would be a lot more reasonable.

here ladies and gentlemen is what we call... a biased test.

another issue that im pretty sure isn't mentioned is why did you only test once per tank RNG exists in this game. 1 test automatically makes the test null and void.

this is absolutely taking a shit on the word scientific.

Test is silly, but it shows again Panthers main weakness, which is obviously not the weak rear armor but the low DPS because of an unusual high reload speed.

Insanely high reload on panther:

Reload
Duration min:
5.8
Duration max:
6.7

Super speedy reload on 34/85:

Reload
Duration min:
6.0
Duration max:
6.3

On average the difference is 0.1-0.2 sec.

Current Panther is almost fine the way it is. A tiny decrease in reload time and better AI would put it more into line with its price point. That way it could function moderately on its own without having to run away from a single bazooka, or having to circle an AT gun for god knows how long.

Edit: 'Better AI', certainly not anything on par with the Sherman's AP rounds, or even the Easy Eights AI strength, but better, nonetheless.

The Engagemant of the German Player Base is very high i can see

Insanely high reload on panther:


Super speedy reload on 34/85:


On average the difference is 0.1-0.2 sec.

The T34/85 is not the fastest shooting tank either though, you could compare it to some other tanks as well where the difference is more noticeable. Maybe even tank destroyers, since it essentially is a tank destroyer with a turret. And of course, in a very close battle even a second may mean the difference between one tank winning or the other.

But considering that the T34/85 costs less and also is more effective against infantry, the fact that the difference is only small doesn't really speak against my statement either that the Panther doesn't really excel at dishing out damage on other tanks. It's strength is its front armor and slightly longer range, which helps it beat cheaper tanks if used correctly usually, but it doesn't do it in such a convincing way as the cost and lack of anti infantry capabiltiy would demand in my eyes, especially if RNG doesn't play along (where a small reload and accuracy buff would help a lot against already).

By the time you have your Panther someone else might already have two tanks as well or be very close to it, and they together would be a big issue for a Panther.

@up

But if you're going for panther you should have at the very least 2 paks and possibly shrecks, so its not like that panther would be the only source of AT.

I guess you are right, but if the AT is essentially done mostly by these Paks and Schrecks in this situation, couldn't I just replace the Panther in this equation with any other tank instead and it would not make a big difference?

@up

But if you're going for panther you should have at the very least 2 paks and possibly shrecks, so its not like that panther would be the only source of AT.

And not only u opponent too would have supporting units.Ur argument is invalid as it always has been because paks are not much good in offensive pushes,superb defensive option they may be.And no one gets multiple shrecks pzgrens due to mp sink and huge upg muni unless u don't want an AI force of lmg grens.Add tech price for ost.I don't pay 175 fuel and huge teching to get a tank that can defend only.

Stupid test. Place ISU in front of Grenadiers. OP PLS NURRRRRFFFF IT.

Oh my god, this test...
The panthers strengths are mobility, long range, high penetration and thick frontal armor. You can't say a unit under performs based on a video where the unit is handled exactly opposite of how it should be handled in game.

One problem with the Panther is that it's strengths are also it's weakness. High mobility lets it move, but high scatter and a large movement penalty result in abysmal accuracy while moving. To a lesser extent, it often cannot utilize it's extra range due to average LOS.

Insanely high reload on panther:

Super speedy reload on 34/85:

On average the difference is 0.1-0.2 sec.

People probably don't realise how similar they are because when the T-34/85 shoots, it has a much higher chance to do damage every time. The lowest scatter + highest AoE of any medium tank make it a beast against infantry and armour alike. The Panther on the other hand is more likely to miss and cannot hurt infantry at all, making any misses or attacks against infantry much more painful to watch.