WC51 Nerf?

i think you may be doing somthing wrong.

Little troll machine, hurts very bad in the early game. Only option is raketten, which leaves you without AI. Then you have to chase the thing all over the map until you get to shots on it. Meanwhile you're decapped and overrun.

I don't think the US needed a unit to "level to playing field early game vs OKW". They seemed to do just fine.

This unit is still too strong. I'd reduce its health or armor a little bit. Currently I can drive it into two volks squads in cover without a care in the world.

It's already more expensive than and comes at the same time as the M3.

Everything you do to kill M3's, do to this.

After all. M3's usually come with some mix of penal troops, flamethrowers, or both- americans need to spend fuel one way or another to get that much firepower in the back of a dodge.

Be it BAR or a Lieutenant, it comes later than a single penal squad with a flamethrower, and the end result is as close to the same as an M3 is to a Dodge.

And every dodge loss costs 50MP and 5 Fuel more than an M3.

@Brachiaraidos i´ve already said it: call in > teching. One locks you into a AI tier, theres no "risk" on making dodges, just a commander choice.

Also, you just want to close up with flamer once you know you already force the retreat or the squad is so low in health that if he faust, he might get wiped. For that reason a higher dps at range is better (something that penals and CE lacks).

Finally, the 50mp + 5fuel you are paying also accounts for the "free" engineer inside.

I can't agree. It evens the start against OKW.

Since ok, as RANGED infantry is quite strong, nothing to say there... but believe me i see my damn infantry humiliated by both sturmpioneer and normal pioneer. (for the second ones it was quite rarer ad it was an excellent micro done by that wehrmacht player)

just about everyone agrees that rifles are the best starting infantry. if youre losing to pios you have a serious problem. sturm pios are stronger, but still lose to rifles quite easily if you make use of the rifles long range dps. sounds like youre getting too close.

But, again i might be too noob to appreciate the recon flight and the useless arty shoot that you get from that commander

useless arty? now i think youre just trolling...

It's already more expensive than and comes at the same time as the M3.

Everything you do to kill M3's, do to this.

After all. M3's usually come with some mix of penal troops, flamethrowers, or both- americans need to spend fuel one way or another to get that much firepower in the back of a dodge.

Be it BAR or a Lieutenant, it comes later than a single penal squad with a flamethrower, and the end result is as close to the same as an M3 is to a Dodge.

And every dodge loss costs 50MP and 5 Fuel more than an M3.

penal cars are actually later. you have to build t1, build the penal and then the car. all of these have to happen in order. it takes about 1:40 to get your m3 out.

americans just build a rifle then call in the wc51 once they have fuel. this only takes 1:05 you do get the fuel for the dodge and m3 around the same time, but the m3 has a build time.

the rifles and the dodge also have much higher dps at long range than a penal m3. a flamer comes much much later, since they also have to save the munitions.

the advice "do everything you do to an m3" doesnt quite work here. m3 has weak rear armor which gives small arms a 37% chance to pen. the dodge only gives a 25% chance, so sturms and volks will do about 30% less even if they can flank it. this more than makes up for the reduced hp. this lets americans drive straight up to squads without worry about its rear armor, unlike the m3. m3 has to be used at range, where its gun and penals are relatively weak. even if the american sits at max range, the dodge and rifles dps is almost 50% higher than the penal and m3.

the reason this is really an issue is because the okw dont have faust like wehrmacht. i played against brad when he was building 4 dodges to start games and he lost everyone of them to my fausts. had i been okw, i wouldve had no answer. schrecks dont come soon enough and rakaten is too much of a gamble. i dont even consider a single squad with schrecks to be a good counter because you can just push them around to prevent them from shooting. after 2-3 etities die, you just chase them on retreat.

Issue is not with the truck otself but the dps of the riflemen inside. I recommend a severe negative accuracy modifier for units garrisoned.

I am not a troll, but considering COST and how fast it comes is one of the easiest arty to micro and avoid...

Infantry are strong, sure, but in a city, without the possibility of going mid to long range... you get pretty much owned.

I play mostly us and it's REALLY hard to counter a sturmpioneer spam, you have to wait the armored car or the MG.. and by that time you're pretty much screwed if you don't a sovient on your side.

Just played against this unit, can confirm, still OP. Shouldn't have to mass retreat since I didn't build a rakaten immediately.

Mechanized Company artillery one shots any OKW trucks for 180 muni... and you also get a recon flight in the commander. That is anything but crap.

honestly they should just change it so it requires 1 cp instead of 0

Mechanized Company artillery one shots any OKW trucks for 180 muni... and you also get a recon flight in the commander. That is anything but crap.

I dont think that is true, I played against it and it seemed to do 66-75% of damage to my deployed trucks

I dont think that is true, I played against it and it seemed to do 66-75% of damage to my deployed trucks

Trucks get damaged. OKW player thinks its nothing. I use the ability to blow it up. Pretty convenient and easy if you ask me.


Someone here said it was crap. Im saying it sure aint. That is all.

honestly they should just change it so it requires 1 cp instead of 0

+1

Trucks get damaged. OKW player thinks its nothing. I use the ability to blow it up. Pretty convenient and easy if you ask me.


Someone here said it was crap. Im saying it sure aint. That is all.

That is really more of player issue.

If you don't believe your forward bases should be at top health at all times, it means you don't take into account possible arty/demo/satchel and kind of deserve to loose it.

Sturmpios with sweepers will repair it in a matter of seconds, no logical reason why they wouldn't do it.

Was just saying that Ther0 was very wrong; its the only good late game ability the commander has.

Question: How many infantry firing slots does the Dodge have? The M3 has 4 firing slots, meaning a conscript squad inside only has 4 out of 6 guns firing. This is one of the reasons they do just fine with 4 man engineer squads with a flamer.

If the Dodge, smaller than the M3, is allowing all 5 riflemen to fire than there seems to be some disjointed logic. Simply dropping the firing slots from 5 to 4 is a 20% decrease to the rifleman DPS. If the Dodge currently has 4 slots, maybe we could even reduce the firing slots to 3 as it is such a small vehicle.

I'd rather see the Dodge effective as a squad ferry and skirmisher than another clown car buzzing after anything that dares retreat and subsequently nerfed to dirt.

One also has to keep in mind that investing to hard counter the Dodge can be a losing proposition as the Mech commander can simply retreat them off man and use the returned fuel to tech.

I do want to say that the Dodge isn't that far over the top; the Mechanized commander is a high skill, high risk doctrine that should pay off for adaptive play and map awareness. I think people are just tired of seeing near full squads cut down on retreat.

making garrisoned squads do less damage on the move, or less damage to retreating units, or both, would be fine in my opinion. 1 CP cost would also be reasonable. I think it stays relevant well beyond that point.

20 fuel that early in the game delays your tech time a great deal, especially if he gets multiple trucks

if you see trucks, your flak HT will be safe for a while longer from the AA truck

Wc51 can use blitz with broken engine, just lol.