Maxim Spam

Rifles/Cons + maxims isn´t combined arms ?

You forgot CEs and REs. Hell, after this logic starting unit + maxims = combined arms MVGame

And someone tell me why the support weapons don't cap at a very small speed, like old osttruppens?

has no weaknesses

Splash suppression: Maxim is bad at suppressing more than one squad.
Vet/Lategame scaling: It doesn't improve much with vet

Splash suppression: Maxim is bad at suppressing more than one squad.
Vet/Lategame scaling: It doesn't improve much with vet

Late game scaling is an issue for all mg's. and only the most open of maps would allow you to exploit the smaller suppression aoe. And to be honest the mg42 at the moment is only good at suppresing one squad because of its very slow gun traverse.

Riddle me this: Why can't a single maxim spammer even make it into the top-50 of 1vs1 if they're so insanely op like you say? And why doesn't a single one of the "top" players actually do it?

I know of at least 2 examples (don't remember nicks) and there was this Jelly guy who said himself he went from 2000 rank into <100 just utilizing Maxim spam. But that was against Wermaht. I know how to deal with them as Wermaht it's OKW I struggle with. As I said last game I destroyed and salvaged 3 of them due to successful flanks and it didn't matter. ISG wasn't able to clear them fast enough.
Maybe the very elite 50 players don't have problems with it or maybe this is because it is very unlikely to see spam of a single unit in these super pro games. I don't know. What I know however is that it takes faaaaaar less effort to beat maxim spam as OKW than it is to use it against them. For me this strat is too effective in this matchup and it gives unfair advantage to Soviet player therefore it is over performing.
I get similar feelings when I play against AA halftrack.

The solution is simple. Make so supports weapons can't cap territory. Maxim performance won't be affected at all so if you want to spam them - be my guest. This is the simplest, non invasive solution there is because I don't want maxim to be this crap of HMG it was at the beginning of the game around one year ago.

I want MG42 to finally be able to control blobs as well. Not kill them but control. But that's completely different story.

Late game scaling is an issue for all mg's. and only the most open of maps would allow you to exploit the smaller suppression aoe. And to be honest the mg42 at the moment is only good at suppresing one squad because of its very slow gun traverse.

mg42 scaling with vet is fucking amazing. It's literally the best scaling unit wehrmacht has, a single vet3 one is better than two vet0 ones. Maxim vet scaling on the other hand...doesn't really exist, you won't notice when you lose your vet crew to a riflenade. And while you're right about the traverse (on non-vet2 MG42s, anyway), you try stopping a blob of 4 units together with a maxim and come tell us how that goes. An MG42 in the same situation instasuppresses all the squads when it starts firing.

I know of at least 2 examples (don't remember nicks) and there was this Jelly guy who said himself he went from 2000 rank into <100 just utilizing Maxim spam.

So you don't know. And jelly is barely even in the top-200. A rank range to which pretty much every single player who plays a lot of games will end up getting into because the player base isn't that large.

Maybe the very elite 50 players don't have problems with it or maybe this is because it is very unlikely to see spam of a single unit in these super pro games.

If anything the high end game tactics are more stale than in midrank games and you're more or less guaranteed to see whichever unit is the most effective being spammed. And what can we conclude about what the high level players think about the viability of maxim spam (in 1vs1) from this?

The solution is simple. Make so supports weapons can't cap territory. Maxim performance won't be affected at all so if you want to spam them - be my guest.

To be honest this would barely make a difference ingame except by making mg42s even less enticing against soviets, and the "omg maxim op" crowd would be back to crying that it wasn't a big enough nerf 5 seconds after the patch notes hit.

mg42 scaling with vet is fucking amazing. It's literally the best scaling unit wehrmacht has, a single vet3 one is better than two vet0 ones. Maxim vet scaling on the other hand...doesn't really exist, you won't notice when you lose your vet crew to a riflenade. And while you're right about the traverse (on non-vet2 MG42s, anyway), you try stopping a blob of 4 units together with a maxim and come tell us how that goes. An MG42 in the same situation instasuppresses all the squads when it starts firing.

Im not talking about vet mate . you are correct that the mg42 benefits more from its vet then the maxim. We are talking how an unit perform early to late game. as infantry become better equipped tanks and vehicles appear artillery and call in artillery appear the value of the mg42 and other mg's drop drastically.

Their already have been several discussions about mg42's getting overwhelmed by bar blobs and as i said already maxims are useless against obers.

Im not talking about vet mate . you are correct that the mg42 benefits more from its vet then the maxim. We are talking how an unit perform early to late game. as infantry become better equipped tanks and vehicles appear artillery and call in artillery appear the value of the mg42 and other mg's drop drastically.

Their already have been several discussions about mg42's getting overwhelmed by bar blobs and as i said already maxims are useless against obers.

Sorry, if anything mg42s become incredibly relevant lategame because with vet3 they can completely lock down their entire cone, and deal insane damage while doing so, and the spread out deployment you usually get with the mg42 team means they're not going to get oneshot by any kind of aoe either. At vet3 they're nigh impossible to kill with just infantry, and you have these things called other units to protect them from vehicles.

I can count games it reached Vet3 on the fingers of my hand.

Sorry, if anything mg42s become incredibly relevant lategame because with vet3 they can completely lock down their entire cone, and deal insane damage while doing so, and the spread out deployment you usually get with the mg42 team means they're not going to get oneshot by any kind of aoe either. At vet3 they're nigh impossible to kill with just infantry, and you have these things called other units to protect them from vehicles.

As oz Said getting a mg42 to vet 3 is nearly impossible as they generally have low dps because suppressed units take less damage (no idea where the insane damage is coming from). the longer the game goes on the more AI becomes available the mgs become a liability. you may not be one shotted (through its a possibility) the mg42 and every single mg becomes far more vulnerable as the game progresses.

plus there is this point within Wermaht - US matchup when MG42 becomes irrelevant due to overwhelming firepower of Rifles + Lieutenant.

plus there is this point within Wermaht - US matchup when MG42 becomes irrelevant due to overwhelming firepower of Rifles + Lieutenant.

Do I even need to point out how silly it is to expect 240mp to hold out against 1000+mp?
With suppression modifiers included, its still as if one-two full squads were firing at you, yes, you will die, yes, you should because of sheer resource difference.

Do you expect maxim to stop 4 squads? Because it won't, even if they are on top of each other, maxim will be gunned down effortlessly by anything short of osttruppen.
Why do you believe MG42 should?

Cut the crap Katitof. You know what I meant.
I'm not talking about defeating it, I am talking about CONTROLLING it so my army can actually do the work.
MG42 should be area denial weapon, currently it isn't.

And they do control them.

Attackers WILL get suppressed if they are outside of cover.

If you don't have any other troops to move in for the kill, then don't expect to win that engagement.

To me it seems like you want it to be infantry manned "pin plane". Well, its not, it'll never be. It doesn't have problems suppressing infantry, but if you don't have anything to clear the suppressed squads and believe a lone MG should be all you need, then you have some really skewed perception of what "cost effective" is.

If you want a denial weapon, build a MG bunker, don't expect 240 squad to stop 1000 menpower at vet0(because it WILL do it at vet3).

No weapon team will stop 4 times its worth, not kubel, not MG34/42, not maxim, not DSHK and not .50 cal.

Even old Elephant couldn't stop 8 T34s.

To be honest I want my Grenadiers to walk over everything like Rifles do. To bad you can't spam MG42 only and still win like with Maxims.

To be honest I want my Grenadiers to walk over everything like Rifles do. To bad you can't spam MG42 only and still win like with Maxims.

Is funny how the unit that throw balance to the drain in your examples is always the Maxim, but the enemy infantry killing you are USF rifles.

Please, don't mix factions because even if maxim is overpowered and has a great sinergy with USF units, anything else that the soviet army has is terrible against OKW. Nerf Maxim and you are making OKW unbeatable for a soviet player.

Before talking about how to nerf maxim we should talk about how to make the faction useful without resorting to cheesy strategies like maxim spam or m3+flamers. Then and only then we could nerf maxim.

Both maxim and MG42 are the same cost as a basic infantry squad and work as well as they should for their cost.

Flanking small numbers of maxims is easy, indirect pummelling large numbers is easy, popping a pair of rifle nades to wipe combat rough maxims is easy, etc. etc. etc.

Maxims are percieved as a problem for some because of their low level of entry in terms of skill. Using maxims to beat up poop players is easy in the same way that using MG42 to lock down maps is easy against similarly bad players.

The counters are efficient and reliable but require some level of skill at the game above and beyond what using said maxim demands.

Sadly, there's no patch in the world which can fix poor play.

I love how it always comes back to 1v1. I specifically said I dont really have an issue with it 1v1, it is in team games 2v2 and up where the problem is compounded. You cant flank them when the opponents use supporting inf (the other player) and they are half co-ordinated. It just feels so cheesy. We face it ALL THE TIME in 2v2 and its a massive struggle to get ahead as axis but change to Allies and spam them with my US team mate supporting with mass rifles and its just so much easier. There is a big problem here and it really does need to be addressed ASAP.

I mean, when you see the same thing 9/10 games then I think that is saying the build is a tad too effective and really needs to be looked at.

I played some 2v2 as well, Yes Maxim spam supported by US is potent. But so is OKW supported by Wehrmacht

I (and other people as far as I can see) spam maxims into shocks (or Snipers if you have reliable teamate) because any other opening with Soviets vs OKW/OKW or OKW/Wehr would be very hard to pull off.

I would probably claim that OKW is to powerful early on for anything but Maxim spam, rather than Maxim being too effective. At risk of causing a wrath on myself

The DPS OR suppression should be nerfed a little bit, but not both at the same time. It's a good weapons teams, and suggestions like 4 man squads makes it too vulnerable to infantry guns and mortars.

The suppression is too quick. If the suppression were to stay the same, it should be less punishing for suppressed units being pinned by reducing the DPS, so you can allow for opponents to counter and flank.

I would probably claim that OKW is to powerful early on for anything but Maxim spam, rather than Maxim being too effective. At risk of causing a wrath on myself

+1
I've the same opinion.

Soviet infantry needs some love before talking about nerfing maxims.

Try equipping 3bulletins for mg 42 including 10% more exp one and you can have vet 2 mg literally after first engagement(happened to me in 3v3)go with multiple mgs and watch cons and rifles melt. Also try to use incendiary rounds before engagement starts(might take some time to do it properly).