State of the balance according to Imperial Dane

How long before people realize that the whole design of OKW revolves around keeping your units alive for the lategame where the increased vet gives you an advantage?

Amazing how there are people still asking for a buff to volks, they are not supposed to win against riflemen, not at long, medium or short range, they cost less, they have 2 extra levels of veterancy, they can get an AT upgrade effective throughout the game (with freezing immunity wich is a nice extra bonus).

Well, you still need to be able to actually get into the lategame to reap the benefits of veterancy. And in 1v1, that is quite a difficult task against a competent US player - in 2v2 and up, conversely not so much. Plus, what would be the point of Volks if even with their accumulated vet they still could not hold up to riflemen at any range? As a mere placeholder/economy of force infantry they are too expensive.
That being said, I think Volks are fine statswise, although a slight cost decrease for the Schreck might be in order - which is really not a terribly effective or reliable tool for AT. You still need it, if only for auxiliary AT purposes and to vet faster, but it most certainly is not dependable to stop even well microed light armor.

I have problems listening to balance opinions from someone who never build heal stations...

He doesn't build healing stations, snipers, or use hot keys much. (it appears).

I have problems listening to balance opinions from someone who never build heal stations...

Well, you still need to be able to actually get into the lategame to reap the benefits of veterancy. And in 1v1, that is quite a difficult task against a competent US player - in 2v2 and up, conversely not so much. Plus, what would be the point of Volks if even with their accumulated vet they still could not hold up to riflemen at any range? As a mere placeholder/economy of force infantry they are too expensive.
That being said, I think Volks are fine statswise, although a slight cost decrease for the Schreck might be in order - which is really not a terribly effective or reliable tool for AT. You still need it, if only for auxiliary AT purposes and to vet faster, but it most certainly is not dependable to stop even well microed light armor.

Volks are meat shields. Just look at their vet bonuses. They fight OK like slightly retarded conscripts BUT they get killer armor bonuses and self healing. Then the Shrek plus they are sniper resistant and mine resistant. They are meant to be shrek platforms or ambush grenade throwers. Honestly I like Ambush Grenade volks better than PPSH Cons.

They were obviously meant to be your screening force. They are cheap and with vet highly durable with an officer very deadly and get AT. I see nothing at all wrong with volks all things taken into consideration. They are my favorite infantry squad.

Want to get your Sturmpios in facerape range? CHARGE VOLKS! They do a fantastic job in this role and are a much needed cheap unit for OKW. They arent for fighting they are for dying.

Dane is a decent player, a great caster but is one of the most blatantly biased players. At some points in alpha testing OKW was ungodly overpowered and he still wanted to buff them. He also thought that the 100 range elefant needed a buff, literally called it useless.

Anyways, as I was saying, I respect dane as a person, player, and caster but his balance opinions are far from objective, nor should most of them be taken seriously.

Well, at least he is more familiar in the historical prospects(organization, formation, doctrine, weapon system compositions,...) than you are as far as I have seen you in your streaming. Balance itself is a reflect of the doctrine adopted by military organization for simulation. You should back up your statement by facts(i.e. statistical facts of weapon systems performances). The scale in coh2 of weapon system is not up to corresponding realistic operational scale anyway. It is a game not reflecting the reality but the dream.

Well, at least he is more familiar in the historical prospects(organization, formation, doctrine, weapon system compositions,...) than you are as far as I have seen you in your streaming.

Too bad that knowledge means jack for the game other then some historical tips for the uneducated mass.

Outside of vehicle and infantry looks and some general "main theme" of some units, nothing in CoH2 applies historically and if you'll try to discuss balance based on "historical facts" all you'll get is being called an idiot and rightfully so as CoH2 is not a simulation and couldn't be further from it.

Well, at least he is more familiar in the historical prospects(organization, formation, doctrine, weapon system compositions,...) than you are as far as I have seen you in your streaming. Balance itself is a reflect of the doctrine adopted by military organization for simulation. You should back up your statement by facts(i.e. statistical facts of weapon systems performances). The scale in coh2 of weapon system is not up to corresponding realistic operational scale anyway. It is a game not reflecting the reality but the dream.

In coh2 balance will always trump realism. I may not have a great understanding of units in the historical perspective but I do have a great understanding of the underlying game mechanics and of top level play, which is what matters. So I'm not really sure what point you're trying to make...

Not only is it irrelevant in a videogame like CoH, but if you really want to discuss balance from an historical point of view, every game with the US should be them blasting the opponent off the map with airstrikes and artillery, having unlimited fuel and ammo, being completely mechanized as opposed to their opponents still using mostly horses to move stuff around, the soviets would instead have 12 man conscript squads and t34s out of the ass, not to mention most squads have ppsh or SVT in the lategame and whole katyusha batteries.


"Historically" you forget who won the war, it's not the allies that are being buffed for gameplay reasons compared to history, but the axis, quite a bit.

Well, at least he is more familiar in the historical prospects(organization, formation, doctrine, weapon system compositions,...) than you are as far as I have seen you in your streaming. Balance itself is a reflect of the doctrine adopted by military organization for simulation. You should back up your statement by facts(i.e. statistical facts of weapon systems performances). The scale in coh2 of weapon system is not up to corresponding realistic operational scale anyway. It is a game not reflecting the reality but the dream.

Okay, let's have balance reflect realism.

Allies auto-win every game thanks to having unlimited munitions for support powers, complete air superiority, outnumbering Axis in every battle, having access to veteran soldiers as opposed to the dredges of the Volksturm, and Axis have all their vehicles heavier than Panzer IVs break down every so often because of how crappily they were designed. Axis also cannot retreat without being shot, have their fuel transferred to trains that bring Jews to death camps, and periodically have the player's order overridden into suicidal charges by some madman sitting in a bunker.

Because, you know, realistically that's how the war looked like in 1944/45. Sounds fun doesn't it?

Relic taking its sweet time while US blobs roam the field. Awesome.

OKW blobs:

Dealing with blobs the proper way:

Okay, let's have balance reflect realism.

Allies auto-win every game thanks to having unlimited munitions for support powers, complete air superiority, outnumbering Axis in every battle, having access to veteran soldiers as opposed to the dredges of the Volksturm, and Axis have all their vehicles heavier than Panzer IVs break down every so often because of how crappily they were designed. Axis also cannot retreat without being shot, have their fuel transferred to trains that bring Jews to death camps, and periodically have the player's order overridden into suicidal charges by some madman sitting in a bunker.

Because, you know, realistically that's how the war looked like in 1944/45. Sounds fun doesn't it?

Surely, it is known fact who won the war. However, did you consider there are 4 factions in the game. Which period of the game are you talking about and which period of the history is covered in the game(41-45 really)? Whether we are talking about 41,42,43 or 44 largely depends upon the composition of the formations and integration of the weapon systems including the doctrine adopted. I do not see the real hard battles in the western front except the landing. I do agree tons of hard battles in eastern front anyways. And I need someone to remind me rommel's plan regarding how to prevent allies landing. There were tons of analysis on this. The purpose of simulation is to test validity of doctrine or strategy. For unlimited munitions, recall the surrounded ardennes. There are many possibilities. These possibilities are studied by simulations rather than entertaining COH2 style which is "abomination" of the purpose of serious wargaming. Btw, it is fun to play under those stressed situations which tests the limits of the lower and upper level commander's capacity. Recall some of the situations in Manstein's Verlorene Siege, though it may have flaws.

Well, at least he is more familiar in the historical prospects(organization, formation, doctrine, weapon system compositions,...) than you are as far as I have seen you in your streaming. Balance itself is a reflect of the doctrine adopted by military organization for simulation. You should back up your statement by facts(i.e. statistical facts of weapon systems performances). The scale in coh2 of weapon system is not up to corresponding realistic operational scale anyway. It is a game not reflecting the reality but the dream.

what the fuck does this even mean?

If you want historical, german tanks should break down every 15 minutes and have a 30% chance upon being spotted to have a Thunderbolt drop a 100kg bomb on it. B-17s should routinely drop 2,200kg worth of bombs on enemy structures and T-34s/Shermans should cost 30 fuel

History is not kind to german fanboys

Surely, it is known fact who won the war. However, did you consider there are 4 factions in the game. Which period of the game are you talking about and which period of the history is covered in the game(41-45 really)? Whether we are talking about 41,42,43 or 44 largely depends upon the composition of the formations and integration of the weapon systems including the doctrine adopted. I do not see the real hard battles in the western front except the landing. I do agree tons of hard battles in eastern front anyways. And I need someone to remind me rommel's plan regarding how to prevent allies landing. There were tons of analysis on this. The purpose of simulation is to test validity of doctrine or strategy. For unlimited munitions, recall the surrounded ardennes. There are many possibilities. These possibilities are studied by simulations rather than entertaining COH2 style which is "abomination" of the purpose of serious wargaming. Btw, it is fun to play under those stressed situations which tests the limits of the lower and upper level commander's capacity. Recall some of the situations in Manstein's Verlorene Siege, though it may have flaws.

COH2 is a RTS, not a serious wargame or a historical treaty. It's a game, made for fun, that uses late WW2 as a backdrop (hence all the heavy panzer porn in multiplayer). It's also meant to be balanced, and war is never balanced. So any talks of realism beyond ''this unit existed and was used that way'' is completely useless.

Anyone who doesnt even play with hotkeys you cant take seriously... thats my opinion.


Dane reads way too much into historical facts than is healthy for the game, i mean who cares if volks used to have mg-34 or mp40 as equipment? What matters is does it fit into the game and will it be balanced? Danes suggestion often is historical accuracy over balance.

(I do agree with volks need a buff but i dont give a flying fuck if they are equppied with mp40 or kar98 as long as its balanced)

This whole thing is like his obsession with stugs, anyone thats a decent RTS player will see a panzer4 does the same job as a stug but also more versitile and is just slighty more expensive...

Wow, what a shock, a player (Dane) who exclusively plays Germans wants the German factions buffed.

Having said that, Rifle Company is ruining the game right now. What were they thinking?

Historical infantry combat as per ImperialStooge and the Wehraboo co.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pcAASc0kmfE

I've had to deal with blobs of Volks shrek blobs with Falls/Obers mixed in as of late and it is pretty damn hard to deal with. The idea that Volks need more buffs is laughable.

Historical infantry combat as per ImperialStooge and the Wehraboo co.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pcAASc0kmfE

Totally ignoring the concept of German infantry squads which totally revolved around the MG. In fact on a squad basis Germans usually had the upper hand due to the MG. But nice try.