Maxims vs the OKW

Infantry gun hardcounters maxims.

It used to before they nerfed the officer. Oh and I guess the gun got nerfed too. I'm just ticked about the officer nerf

but its solid, do anything else or ask to buff soviets and the entire forums will rage upon you, because ze vatherland is supreme.

maybe its because the two patches before wf were buffs to the entire sov army.

Soviet T1 does not do well against OKW in team games outside of the opening minutes of the game. You have to get T2 soon after and any units that you have left out of T1 are dead weight during the remainder of the match.

somewhat true, but i think youre understating how powerful that early t1 is. very few people had scavenge before today, and falls were 3 cps away from being a threat to your snipers. depending on the map, there may also be few options for spawning them behind you.

even if you dont want snipers, you penal cars with flamers are extremely strong. ive used it against okw even when they build a rakaten and it just takes a little micro to decrew it safely. then the rest of his squads are typically forced to retreat and you can easily wipe a squad or two. not only will the okw lose squads, they will also lose map control. even if theyre able to recover and kill your cars, i have no problem with teching to t2 after that. this doesnt necessarily delay tanks either. if youre waiting for call ins, youll be floating fuel waiting for cps.

They definitely go poof against obersoldaten+anything to draw initial fire.

Its effective to the point where I laugh during wiping maxims unable to even retreat.

you just said this in another maxim thread:

Do I even need to point out how silly it is to expect 240mp to hold out against 1000+mp?
With suppression modifiers included, its still as if one-two full squads were firing at you, yes, you will die, yes, you should because of sheer resource difference.

seems a little contradictory to me

Right. The thing that is really pissing me off with Maxims vs OKW, is you can see your opponent has all Maxim bulletins and is clearly going to spam them, yet this does not help you, because THERE IS NO EASY WAY to counter many maxims.

The ISG can help, but comes late, when you have little map control left.

Ive just tried spamming volks, and its a real uphil struggle to get anywhere.

All this, just for spamming maxims, its all TOO EASY.


When someone heavily invests in one type of unit, there should be a clear hard counter.. its how this game works.. but right now, even when you know from the start of the game whats coming, you cant plan for it, its just lame as.

you just said this in another maxim thread:



seems a little contradictory to me

Please tell me, what exactly contradicts here?

In other thread I've said MGs won't stop much greater menpower investment.

In the 2nd post I confirmed that.

What exactly is contradicting here with what?
Because to me it seems rather consistent.

Right. The thing that is really pissing me off with Maxims vs OKW, is you can see your opponent has all Maxim bulletins and is clearly going to spam them, yet this does not help you, because THERE IS NO EASY WAY to counter many maxims.

PLAY BETTER.

Beating heavy machine gun usage is about POSITIONING. Flanking, using your flak halftrack in a fashion so it doesn't get killed by an AT gun but still effectively forces off maxims. Using your sturm pios to slaughter them on the flank.

This isn't Starcraft where I can just say "Build X and Y hard counters when you see him build maxims". You just have to play smarter than him, which is how it should be in any competitive game.

Please tell me, what exactly contradicts here?

In other thread I've said MGs won't stop much greater menpower investment.

In the 2nd post I confirmed that.

What exactly is contradicting here with what?
Because to me it seems rather consistent.

The contradiction seems to be this:

Of MG34/42: you said it shouldn't be expected to handle units that cost a lot more than it.

Of Maxim: you seem to be saying Obersoldaten are too effective vs Maxim.


I may have misread you though, correct me if I'm wrong.

The contradiction seems to be this:

Of MG34/42: you said it shouldn't be expected to handle units that cost a lot more than it.

Of Maxim: you seem to be saying Obersoldaten are too effective vs Maxim.


I may have misread you though, correct me if I'm wrong.

He he

Maxim spam still has not been addressed vs OKW and OH as well. Its simply far too effective.

The contradiction seems to be this:

Of MG34/42: you said it shouldn't be expected to handle units that cost a lot more than it.

Of Maxim: you seem to be saying Obersoldaten are too effective vs Maxim.


I may have misread you though, correct me if I'm wrong.

I don't see the contradiction either? From how I read he just said Obers easily kill Maxims if something draws fire, which is true and makes sense. Since he also mentioned those were his own Obers, I didn't read it as ''OMG NERF OBERS'' either.

I mean, I can't speak for him, but people are acting as if he was told, and I just don't see the argument.

Maxims ARE a bit of a pain as OKW, but it's very map dependant. Most maxim spammers (the few I personally see) don't position them well, allowing you to draw fire whith Volks while your trusty Sturms flank them. Flak HT also come pretty soon and lays waste to them. ISG is a bit hit and miss, but with some RNG it does wonders.

And once you're in late game, elite OKW infantry shuts them down pronto. Worst comes to worst? Skuka and watch them being sent to communist hell.

The contradiction seems to be this:

Of MG34/42: you said it shouldn't be expected to handle units that cost a lot more than it.

Of Maxim: you seem to be saying Obersoldaten are too effective vs Maxim.


I may have misread you though, correct me if I'm wrong.

That doesn't mean he's contradicting himself. He's implying how good Obers are at dealing with maxims.(Side note- Obers are good vs nooby maxim spammers but if you're playing someone with experience it's not that difficult to deal with obers). All depends on who you play.

That doesn't mean he's contradicting himself. He's implying how good Obers are at dealing with maxims.(Side note- Obers are good vs nooby maxim spammers but if you're playing someone with experience it's not that difficult to deal with obers). All depends on who you play.

Obers are a moot point and now they are fairly easy to kill after 2 x armour nerfs.

Since Maxims give such an early advantage its already GG by the time Maxims have full map control. Vonivan I would have thought you would attest to this??

I have seen some of your games from a week ago. You basically push OKW all the way back to spawn and the opponent has little or no chance to do anything as he is fuel starved and by that time KV8 or IS2 is out.

LEIG is basically hopeless atm. its not evne worth half its price. In fact its not worth getting at all since it puts you at a disadvantage. OKW HT needs it set up time removed and it also needs to stop hitting the ground otherwise its basically useless getting this thing

Obers are a moot point and now they are fairly easy to kill after 2 x armour nerfs.

Since Maxims give such an early advantage its already GG by the time Maxims have full map control. Vonivan I would have thought you would attest to this??

I have seen some of your games from a week ago. You basically push OKW all the way back to spawn and the opponent has little or no chance to do anything as he is fuel starved and by that time KV8 or IS2 is out.

LEIG is basically hopeless atm. its not evne worth half its price. In fact its not worth getting at all since it puts you at a disadvantage. OKW HT needs it set up time removed and it also needs to stop hitting the ground otherwise its basically useless getting this thing

It depends on the map Warthrone, maps like crossing, ferma winter, and La Gleize are excellent for maxims, while others such as summer ferma, farmlands, semois summer are not maxim-ideal maps. It also depends on the opponent and how he operates, while maxims are effective against OKW they are actually much easier to deal with as Ostheer(on balanced maps). Reason I'm saying maxims aren't invincible anti-okw killing machines is because they can be countered and dealt with. I have played every opponent you can think of that uses maxim spam, and so has the best OKW player atm, Vindicare. It's not that hard to deal with when you think T2 and position certain units well while defending a certain portion of the map. I even used my own maxim spam strat against him and he knows how to counter it well unfortunately. Everyone else I've played though has a rough time with it. I myself know the weaknesses to it but do not wish to list them as it would make my strat less(effective) in automatch. But I can give hints, such as good play with an early flak hf.(You'd be surprised at how effective it is when you use it defensively against an aggressive Soviet player)(There is an even better way but I ain't listin' that). That ofc isn't enough to fully counter it but it's part of a strategy you can use. Vindicare has his own special way of dealing with it too, which if you want to know what it is, ask him for it. So, Obers can effectively deal with maxims(late game only obviously), early game you need to adapt to deal with early maxim spam.(It's not as hard as some people point it out to be). While I agree the maxim is a powerful suppression unit, it isn't an OP one. If I were to say the Maxim is OP, I would also have to save the MG34 as being OP.

It depends on the map Warthrone, maps like crossing, ferma winter, and La Gleize are excellent for maxims, while others such as summer ferma, farmlands, semois summer are not maxim-ideal maps. It also depends on the opponent and how he operates, while maxims are effective against OKW they are actually much easier to deal with as Ostheer(on balanced maps). Reason I'm saying maxims aren't invincible anti-okw killing machines is because they can be countered and dealt with. I have played every opponent you can think of that uses maxim spam, and so has the best OKW player atm, Vindicare. It's not that hard to deal with when you think T2 and position certain units well while defending a certain portion of the map. I even used my own maxim spam strat against him and he knows how to counter it well unfortunately. Everyone else I've played though has a rough time with it. I myself know the weaknesses to it but do not wish to list them as it would make my strat less(effective) in automatch. But I can give hints, such as good play with an early flak hf.(You'd be surprised at how effective it is when you use it defensively against an aggressive Soviet player)(There is an even better way but I ain't listin' that). That ofc isn't enough to fully counter it but it's part of a strategy you can use. Vindicare has his own special way of dealing with it too, which if you want to know what it is, ask him for it. So, Obers can effectively deal with maxims(late game only obviously), early game you need to adapt to deal with early maxim spam.(It's not as hard as some people point it out to be). While I agree the maxim is a powerful suppression unit, it isn't an OP one. If I were to say the Maxim is OP, I would also have to save the MG34 as being OP.

Thanks for the feedback. Currently trying any effective means to counter this and im yet to find any. Especially since Zis support with maxims negate any chance i have to use Flak HT. Maxims also damage the FHT fairly well. I do think it needs to be addressed though. Obers i think were made more squishy so the high damage probably is justified them being 400mp and they cost a ridiculous sum to reinforce. They are a huge MP drain.

In the hands of a skilled player i think maxim spam is almost impossible to counter with players such as yourself playing unless you make a silly error.

Thanks for the feedback. Currently trying any effective means to counter this and im yet to find any. Especially since Zis support with maxims negate any chance i have to use Flak HT. Maxims also damage the FHT fairly well. I do think it needs to be addressed though. Obers i think were made more squishy so the high damage probably is justified them being 400mp and they cost a ridiculous sum to reinforce. They are a huge MP drain.

In the hands of a skilled player i think maxim spam is almost impossible to counter with players such as yourself playing unless you make a silly error.

Indeed playing against anyone who is high level these days that does t1 scout car spam(OMGPOP) or con/maxim spam(Myself) is a real pain in the arse because of our skill level, map knowledge, expected attack points, and good estimates of teching time-tables for our opponents. That also doesn't include better micro/handling of units. So it becomes a nightmare to deal with(especially on good maxim maps). Lemme message you a suggestion since you're having a hard time finding one.

The contradiction seems to be this:

Of MG34/42: you said it shouldn't be expected to handle units that cost a lot more than it.

Of Maxim: you seem to be saying Obersoldaten are too effective vs Maxim.


I may have misread you though, correct me if I'm wrong.

You've misunderstood me then, I had quantity on mind, which I clearly mentioned earlier.
You'd expect single squad attacking frontally to be stopped by pretty much any HMG. Not the case with obers against maxim(which will just keep sniping gunner), when you have two obers its simply a-move.
You wouldn't expect single MG to stop 3-5 squads rushing at it, especially if they have weapons effective at long range.

Why Axis cant get an early vehicle to counter all these mgs opening?
Soviet has M3 and USA has Dodge, why not give something to Ostheer or OKW like these?

Why Axis cant get an early vehicle to counter all these mgs opening?
Soviet has M3 and USA has Dodge, why not give something to Ostheer or OKW like these?

Because axis have other effective counters for it?

Mortars, snipers, infantry guns, elite infantry spawning on the backs?

Because axis have other effective counters for it?

Mortars, snipers, infantry guns, elite infantry spawning on the backs?

Those are not the counters to maxims. they are useful in supporting the actual counters but they cannot counter maxims by themselves.