Company Of Heroes 2 US M1 75mm Pack Howitzer

Posts: 1

This is my first time posting an opinion on Company of Heroes 2. I have made mods in the past for a variety of games including Civilization 5, World in Conflict, Command and Conquer Generals and a few other games usually based on my experience from my current military service (12 years and counting). I understand the ratio-conflict discrepancies that can arise between REALISM/FUN and STRATEGY/BALANCE. Since I like to think of myself as a fellow gamer with some programming-developing skills I will try to make an objective evaluation and state my opinion on this unit:
Right now the Pack Howitzer in my opinion is underperforming significantly. Why? Let me answer you with a comparative question: Do you think this unit, being double the price of a normal mortar, performs better than a cheaper – more agile mortar unit? THINK AGAIN!
I did my usual testing on a special map and determined something interesting. First let’s analyze the facts:

M1 75mm Pack Howitzer

"The M1 Pack Howitzer fires a light 75mm round. The M1 is light enough to be moved by its crew and can be used against all targets. Effective against massed infantry and static targets."

Manpower = 480 Upkeep = 11

The Pack Howitzer functions similar to a Mortar. Use it to provide long-range indirect fire against infantry and light targets. The Barrage range of this unit is considerably longer than average mortars, and also packs a bigger punch.
Tip: Keep the unit behind your lines, like all weapon teams it is vulnerable to flanking and small arms. Use the Barrage to reach targets outside of the normal fire range.

According to this information and other game information, we can conclude a few facts:
1. The Pack Howitzer is supposed to function similar to a Mortar
2. The ordnance used is lighter than the soviet PM-41 82mm Mortar Squad: 82mm > 75mm
3. It costs more than the soviet PM-41 82mm Mortar Squad: 240 Manpower
4. It has more upkeep than the soviet PM-41 82mm Mortar Squad: 6 Upkeep
5. Tier 3 Unit

According to these facts we can expect a performance/logic ratio respectively:
1. The Pack Howitzer should attack from significant range and perform similar to a mortar. Performance should be calculated based on tier level and unit price.
2. The ordnance used is lighter than the soviet PM-41 82mm Mortar Squad (82mm > 75mm). Weapon platform have wheels (infantry is not hand-carrying the weapon), munitions are smaller and have less weight than ordinary mortar shells, and ordnance detonation have less recoil.
3. It costs 480 Manpower, 100% more than the soviet PM-41 82mm Mortar Squad or 200% the total price of a normal mortar unit.
4. It has more upkeep than the soviet PM-41 82mm Mortar Squad. (11 Upkeep > 6 Upkeep) Population Cap level means that this unit should have a high risk/reward ratio.
5. The M1 75mm Pack Howitzer is a Tier 3 Unit. Performance should be calculated accordingly.

This is my opinion difference on these facts:
1. The M1 75mm Pack Howitzer attacks from significant range, however it does not perform similar to a mortar based on a comparison side by side to the soviet mortar. The PM-41 82mm Mortar Squad gets 150% - 200% more kills than the M1 75mm Pack Howitzer in the same amount of time under the same conditions.
2. The ordnance used is lighter than the soviet PM-41 82mm Mortar Squad, however unit moves slower, readies weapon slower, fires shells slower, and reloads the barrage ability slower than an ordinary mortar.
3. It costs 480 Manpower. By being 100% more expensive than the soviet PM-41 82mm Mortar Squad I expect it to be 100% better in performance, not worse.
4. It has more upkeep than the soviet PM-41 82mm Mortar Squad. The soviet mortar has more kills and more veterancy at the late stage of the game than the M1 75mm Pack Howitzer. With almost double the Upkeep costs it should be the other way around.
5. The M1 75mm Pack Howitzer is a Tier 3 Unit, but in my opinion, based on the previous facts, it performs worse than the German GrW 34 Mortar Team Tier 1 unit. A unit on this Tier level is expected to have more WOW feeling than a Tier 1 unit. Programming logic Error perhaps?

PS: I will not only complain-rant-cry and write a testament just so a fellow gamer can call out “US FANBOY” or “L2P”, I will also provide possible solutions to iron out this unit:

Nerf all other units and make this unit the “mozt powelful ever” (Joking)
Leave all other units the same and buff this unit to make it the “mozt powelful ever” (Another joke)

1. Significantly increase unit movement and readiness speed (US units should be powerful and fast, but fragile, right?)
2. Decrease the time between firing and the barrage ability reload time
3. Increase the salvo shells fired per barrage to double of the mortar (Costing 480 double the price of a normal mortar is only fair)
4. Make the price of the unit significantly cheaper to match the current unit performance
5. Adjust the unit risk/reward ratio by increasing its accuracy and decreasing the scatter. The current unit slow projectile travel rate should keep evading enemy units alive for a large amount of time until out of range.

These value changes will add value and interest to the M1 Pack Howitzer unit and make the US forces a true versatile faction without the need of a doctrine to fill up the gap. If this change prove to be an over extension then modify based on the new base values in order to discontinue the over extension modification behavior presently recurrent in the dev team.

My review:

This unit cannot effectively show its potential to provide long-range indirect fire against infantry and light targets. This only leaves you with enemy static targets to deal with, but this unit does not cause enough damage to static targets in a timely manner to compensate for its expensive price. The US forces are supposed to be a versatile faction ready to deal with every situation without mastering any situation, this gap in the faction’s ability to have a decent innate (doctrine-less) unit capable to deal with enemy infantry concentrations and light vehicle defenses defeats the purpose and origin for which the US faction gameplay stands for. For this reason, ‘INFANTRY COMPANY’ doctrine is almost always the only doctrine you can pick if you wish to fill the gap for a competent mortar unit – and even still the mortar half-track underperforms as it currently is due to necessary basic abilities costing munitions when they should be free and high scatter and target misses. I wish I could provide the numbers to prove my opinions and some facts, but the code for these statistics is owned by a third party company known for their strategy guides.

If you agree or disagree, please comment why in the section below. Please, leave constructive criticism and prove Company of Heroes community is the best gaming community out there. Thank you for your reading time.

Posts: 198

Soviet tiers don't equal US tiers, so it's not a good comparison I think.

As for weapons stats, instead of relying on gut feeling, I'll point you to my site: www.coh2-stats.com or wooof's spreadsheet - you can check the statistics of units and weapons there.

To give you some stats for the units you've compared:
75mm pack howitzer has 50% more AoE, and around 16%-23% better RoF than the pm-41 mortar.
It does have significantly greater spread though.

I'm not saying the unit is fine for it's cost (not saying it's not either), just giving you some resources you might use in the future.

4

Posts: 4301 | Subs: 2

one thing. at vet 2, it gets HEAT rounds, which does good damage to vehicles if it can hit.

but i agree. this unit feels not worthy.

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Posts: 577

Heya,

I think you are assuming too many things.

"1. The Pack Howitzer is supposed to function similar to a Mortar"
=> Yes and no. One of the roles of the Pack Howitzer is to function similar to a mortar and give indirect fire, but it is also able to give a better close range support to infantry (lower shell flight time) and it is able to fight light (and at Vet2) medium vehicles.

"2. The ordnance used is lighter than the soviet PM-41 82mm Mortar Squad: 82mm > 75mm"
The calibre is smaller, but the ordnance for the M1 Pack Howitzer is far higher (almost 3 times the weight for the shell and packed with more explosive).

And regarding "5." usually the tier should not matter that much. The units should still be similarly cost-effective, it's only that higher tiers usually give access to more expensive units.

Since a lot of your points are problematic you might want to reassess your reasoning and results :/

Posts: 39

I feel like I just read somebody's thesis. Anyways, you're right, it does under perform and should either be buffed or made less expensive.

Posts: 589

it does suck. Needs to be about 380 MP or something?

Posts: 1571

more like 240

16 Jul 2014, 16:21 PMakula

it does suck. Needs to be about 380 MP or something?

Posts: 65

Its by far the most worthless unit in the game right now, totally overpriced and ineffective.

15

Posts: 1970 | Subs: 5

16 Jul 2014, 17:27 PMChacineiro

Its by far the most worthless unit in the game right now, totally overpriced and ineffective.

I think the mortar halftrack wins that award... but the pack howitzer is a close runner-up.

Posts: 65

16 Jul 2014, 17:42 PMRomeo

I think the mortar halftrack wins that award... but the pack howitzer is a close runner-up.

I dont know, I find the white phosphorus barrage somewhat useful if you get a lucky shot, same goes for Ostheer incendiary rounds.

But yes, apart from that, MHTs suck, its indeed a close fight.

4

Posts: 4301 | Subs: 2

bump...

tried to use this in 4v4. got two of them was in range of galores of okw blobs... one barely got to one vet and other one, just space waster.

also it takes 56mp to reinforce this shit!!!!!!! what? for real? i know there is like reinforcing formula but fauck!

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	3v3: P	streak: - 3
	3v3: P	streak: + 8
	3v3: P	streak: - 3
	3v3: P	streak: - 2

Playercard of Bo-Bobby Lion

3v3: P	streak: - 3
2v2: P	streak: - 2	with Ohme
2v2: P	streak: + 1	with Ohme
2v2: P	streak: + 3	with Medman

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Posts: 1304 | Subs: 13

Decrease its scatter and cost. Possibly allow it to use its full barrage range for direct-fire or part of it, somewhere around 100-140. While the Le.IG is more accurate and shoots quicker allowing it to respond to incoming threats better, it has to be closer to the front to operate versus the Pack Howitzer which, while not as lethal, is much safer with larger AOE making it more ideal at shelling fortified positions. It's barrage range is also further which would help towards all of this.

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Posts: 81

bumppppp

This unit really needs to be taken a look at.

As of now US has now good static artillery/mortar unit save for t4 m8a1 and call in arty

Posts: 577

18 Jul 2014, 06:28 AMpigsoup

also it takes 56mp to reinforce this shit!!!!!!! what? for real? i know there is like reinforcing formula but fauck!

I can do magic! You recrewed that Howitzer with either Paratroopers or Riflemen!!! Go look at the replay and tell me if I'm correct

Just messing with you. Thanks for reporting it, I just looked it up and there seems to be a bug. The crew on the weapon itself is 40 Manpower, so reinforcing it with the original crew should cost 20 MP, that's why it has to be recrewed. 56 MP is 2*28MP, the value of Riflemen and Paras, so most likely the reinforcement multipliers are set wrong. Verifying it annnnd:
| squad_reinforce_ext: {
| | $REF: "sbpextensions\squad_reinforce_ext.lua";
| | 0x3B75B8D0: [
| | ];
| | time_cost_percentage: {
| | | cost_percentage: 1f;
| | | time_percentage: 1f;
| | };

Full time + full cost for reinforcing, not .5 as is usually done. Will relay it to Relic. Thanks again