Vet 2 Rifle from start....

They'll probably be nerfing it to the ground next patch but I'll be sad that I never got the chance to try it out...

They'll probably be nerfing it to the ground next patch but I'll be sad that I never got the chance to try it out...

Don't worry, we didn't even had a chance to test it during alpha, because our access to these commanders was reverted right before the change was made(apparently it made sense to give all new commanders for 2 days of testing in the middle of the week).

Maybe 5 players total have seen it after it was made a call-in and that is a rich estimation considering the number of people in alpha and drop rates.

As a general comment, I really dislike when units can buy Vet or begin with it in the COH franchise. It goes against one of the core designs of the franchise.

As it stands, if you have the commander, it is a no brainer choice. Which I thought Relic was trying to get away from.

It is easily counterable - just convince your opponent that ALT-F4 is the vetted rifleman callin shortcut.

because there are much more axis players than allies players, so everytime allies has a decent stuff to play with, they will cry for a nerf. this issue must be looked at first

No, it blatantly gives the american player an unfair advantage.

Pff I use this commander all the time and even the lucky 2 star riflemen does not win an engagement vs a strum 1v1 if the guy is smart and runs him in close which there is nothing we can do to stop them from doing that if you try to move your riflement away they just chase you and you end u retreating anyways and by the time the call in cd is up to call a 2nd sqaud in it normally seems like the other guy has way more infantry than my two vet rifles and eches which are worthless now with volley fire. Whats wrong with my easy 8's!? Just cause they give allied players 1 tank that is worth a shit? I hope they give us another commander soon with a super pershing call in

This is not true unless they stumble right into each other. If the vet 2 (or even 1) is in cover, they will be fine.

I think the best way to fix this would be to make the rifle squad either cost ~320 mp, or maybe institute a small fuel cost (ofc the fuel cost would have to be small and the "random vet" might have to be changed.)

Doesn't it take twice as long to produce? Which limits your early game capping power? I might be off on this, so someone please confirm or deny.

I have destroyed the rifle commander in the two times I've played it as ostheer by getting 3 mg42s, 2 grens and an early pak (to deal with the flaktrack). Granted the opposition wasn't that great. Honestly I don't know why people aren't building more MGs against american players going 4+ rifles.

If you have the assgren doctrine the pgrens in a 250 can easily wipe the floor. Before you show your hand wait to find a lone capping rifle squad, sit out of at nade range until he gets low and is forced to retreat, and run it down. Later in the game you can equip them with shrecks that are great support against the paper thin american armor. Oh and you get the stuge which just wrecks amis, followed by a tiger. Honestly The ass gren doctrine is a pretty easy win against Americans regardless of their commander choice, if you can survive the flak track.

Doesn't it take twice as long to produce? Which limits your early game capping power? I might be off on this, so someone please confirm or deny.

I have destroyed the rifle commander in the two times I've played it as ostheer by getting 3 mg42s, 2 grens and an early pak (to deal with the flaktrack). Granted the opposition wasn't that great. Honestly I don't know why people aren't building more MGs against american players going 4+ rifles.

If you have the assgren doctrine the pgrens in a 250 can easily wipe the floor. Before you show your hand wait to find a lone capping rifle squad, sit out of at nade range until he gets low and is forced to retreat, and run it down. Later in the game you can equip them with shrecks that are great support against the paper thin american armor. Oh and you get the stuge which just wrecks amis, followed by a tiger. Honestly The ass gren doctrine is a pretty easy win against Americans regardless of their commander choice, if you can survive the flak track.

it's a call-in now. not like alpha.

you call in first vet rifle, produce next, then cool down for vet rifle ends with your man power reaching 280 rapidly, then you call another vet rifle. takes less than 1min40sec.

...they also have antitank rifle grenade to kill kubels. ...

an at rifle nade that you can dodge by moving 5 yards back with your kubel...

should go back to how it was in alpha where they had to be built from a building and took twice as long. that way it has a downside. being able to call it in instantly and queue a rifle is what makes this broken.

they could easily add a cool down timer at the start of match or add cp cost, and increase the cool down timer for the same effect. since nothing else adds units to the main buildings why should this.

it's a call-in now. not like alpha.

you call in first vet rifle, produce next, then cool down for vet rifle ends with your man power reaching 280 rapidly, then you call another vet rifle. takes less than 1min40sec.



an at rifle nade that you can dodge by moving 5 yards back with your kubel...

And how do you recognize the animation of the rifle ATnade? because I cant, at least me, and kubel must be stopped to supress and has a low arc of fire and range, I dont see possible solution

they could easily add a cool down timer at the start of match or add cp cost, and increase the cool down timer for the same effect. since nothing else adds units to the main buildings why should this.

because theres no reason for that to be a hard and fast rule. making it come from a building means it takes time that could be spent building other units and it also means you dont have vet rifles the instant you want one. that is the drawback.

your solution is not the same effect. it is only a fix for the first couple minutes of the game. after that, why would you ever waste time building a normal rifle? the call in is the same cost, has veterancy and no buildtime.

while the early game is the biggest issue with this call in, i still dont think it should have no downside at all. i cant think of another doctrinal ability that has no cost or drawback other than radio intercept.

it amazes me that people consider this balanced when spending fuel to get xp with elite troops is considered game breaking.

Who is the idiot at relic who constantly thinks having 0 cp callin units is a good idea? Just a tip: 0 cp units are either nerfed into oblivion or straight up OP.

Why cant relic ever learn from their mistakes?

I bet its the same guy who thinks having 20 fuel weapon upgrades is cool... why even have the fuel costs if its gonna be a nobrainer? 20-30 fuel for bar upgrade? lol anyday.

it amazes me that people consider this balanced when spending fuel to get xp with elite troops is considered game breaking.

That's because, unlike the rifle doc which only allows for vetted rifles(which I might add can only reach vet 2[rarely] to vet 1), Elite Troops can vet up any unit, any time; tigers, Mortar HTs, Falls(team games), etc.... so it's not just limited to one unit, that's why it's the bigger problem.

because theres no reason for that to be a hard and fast rule. making it come from a building means it takes time that could be spent building other units and it also means you dont have vet rifles the instant you want one. that is the drawback.

your solution is not the same effect. it is only a fix for the first couple minutes of the game. after that, why would you ever waste time building a normal rifle? the call in is the same cost, has veterancy and no buildtime.

while the early game is the biggest issue with this call in, i still dont think it should have no downside at all. i cant think of another doctrinal ability that has no cost or drawback other than radio intercept.

it amazes me that people consider this balanced when spending fuel to get xp with elite troops is considered game breaking.

well then you'd just increase the cool down timer so you couldn't spam them amd then add a call in delay which im pretty sure exists for some units. being consistent with other doctrines and there rules they follow i think is important for keeping the game easy to grasp and get a hold of. if each ability follows different set of rules and formulas then it makes it harder to understand the game and if you keep doing it makes the game a confusing jumbled mess.

and it sounds like the larger problem is that they cost the same as buying it from the base building but you get them faster and at higher vet. why should it cost exactly the same as regular unit its a call it plus it gives you instant vet. shouldn't it cost (slightly) more than base value. i havn't looked at the exact price but from what i hear its the same buying 2 rifles or whatever possibly cheper. so why shouldn't you pay more for getting 2 rifles at the same time as well as at veteracy?

Its not uncounterable at all. I was curbed stomped into the ground by Assault Grenadiers. I started with a vet 2 rifle as well and Ass Grens won, one on one.

+1 assault grens are highly effective against USF in early game.

+1 assault grens are highly effective against USF in early game.

I won't believe that until I see it given their performance against penals.

So as they say, rep or didn't happened.

I think a price increase as well as possible CP increase would be merrited. Other than that it really is not that much of a problem.

As a general comment, I really dislike when units can buy Vet or begin with it in the COH franchise. It goes against one of the core designs of the franchise.

As it stands, if you have the commander, it is a no brainer choice. Which I thought Relic was trying to get away from.

whermacht could buy vet from day 1. Its not the case for coh2 tho. It goes against the core design of coh2. personally I think a purchasable vet system that costs feul ofc will add much strategic depth into the game, similar to the upgrade system for rifles in the form is feul and munis based upgrades, which is awesome.

elite troops, i think is hated more because of the tiger ace and not the purchasable vet mechanic.

Now if you think about, there is a punishment for all of those commanders:

- Elite vet requied you to pay fuel for it almost means that you can't get tanks out fast enough. Tiger ace also make income lower too ( After being many patches jezz ).

- Soviet Industry commander let you have more fuel income but lower the manpower rate.

But at the moment, there is no punishment for Rifleman company doctrine.

- You get your Vet Rifleman out right when the game start with the same price ( 280 ).

- Flame arty if compare to the Russian one is weaker but still able to denied enemy from capture point.

- Easy 8 Sherman is a good call in tank if you compare to other US commanders atm.

So like I said, I don't see any punishment in going this doctrine?

Either change it back to the way alpha was ( Same manpower price but take time to deploy from barrack ) or make them more pricey or maybe active at 1 or 2CP.

For Elite commander the price for a Vet 3 Grenadier at 1 minute is 80mp and 25fuels also mean that his tier 2 will be way slower. Sure, he can vet other thing too but it will make him lack vehicles on the field.