Panther

Ostheer Panther is overpriced and is in the unafforadable T4. You'll never be able to get it in 1v1s, unless you like to live dangerously.

OKW's Panther is fine as OKW's T4 has both affordable AI (Obers, Pz II) and AT. They work well together and can be bought in 1v1s. But is there a bug with the Panther? Once a Sherman killed my P5 from the front and my shots didn't penetrate, maybe it was bad luck....I dunno.

Just from observation: The P4 Js don't look worth it as the commander has no other benefits. The other OKW commanders are better.

I've abandoned the Panther in Favor of the OKW 2xP4 aus J. call in. Which is 2 tanks for 210 fuel.

The OKW is a bit different from ostheer as its infantry's assault ability is so good, so attacks rely less on armor and more on infantry IMO.

^^

The tanks in coh have a severe penalty for firing on the move.

I thought the panther from 2013 was completely terrible and OP. I think the current one is fine outside of the price but if kept at the current price it should get the P4's AI so it can function as a general tank too.

Exactamundo sir! Drop the price or increase its AI = fix. Its amour/AT/Speed ect is fine imo.

I just built one with Ostheer in 1v1. The opponent was using the dual T-34/85 call-in. This "dedicated anti tank unit" lost 80% of its health in a frontal slugout while barely inflicting 66% damage on one of the T-34/85s. Thank god I had a Pak around to scare them away. Otherwise the Panther would have cost me the game. And that versus the kind of unit it was supposed to hard counter.

Even when decreasing its price, it won´t do its job. So I think it needs its old health back and a slightly faster rate of fire.

I just built one with Ostheer in 1v1. The opponent was using the dual T-34/85 call-in. This "dedicated anti tank unit" lost 80% of its health in a frontal slugout while barely inflicting 66% damage on one of the T-34/85s. Thank god I had a Pak around to scare them away. Otherwise the Panther would have cost me the game. And that versus the kind of unit it was supposed to hard counter.

Even when decreasing its price, it won´t do its job. So I think it needs its old health back and a slightly faster rate of fire.

You would expect dual T-34/85's to beat a Panther, costs quite a lot more in resources. I'm surprised the T-34's took so little damage though. Care to upload the replay so I can have a look?

You would expect dual T-34/85's to beat a Panther, costs quite a lot more in resources. I'm surprised the T-34's took so little damage though. Care to upload the replay so I can have a look?

Didn´t safe the replay. I tried using the Panther at max range though and moved it backwards. Thus it missed 2 shots. Also two generalist tanks shouldn´t really beat a specialist anti tank vehicle from the front - at least not at that cost for the Panther.

Didn´t safe the replay. I tried using the Panther at max range though and moved it backwards. Thus it missed 2 shots. Also two generalist tanks shouldn´t really beat a specialist anti tank vehicle from the front - at least not at that cost for the Panther.

So 2 P4s shouldn't beat SU-85 upfront as well?
After all its two generalist tanks vs specialist anti tank vehicle from the front.

Don't you see how silly your statement is?

34/85s got as much hp and dps as panther, difference is with penetration, armor and range. If you put two of them, you get enough firepower to bring down a panther and you should as its much more fuel and menpower then panther costs. Panther have pretty much the same effective HP as 2 34/85s, but two 34/85s have twice the DPS.

Numbers are fine, don't overextend it and don't let it go without AT support unless you're flanking something, but 34/85s doesn't require flank. And last but not least, there is this little thing called mark target that will usually be used, so you're being put up against a much greater resources and a pair of strong units, don't expect that to end up well for you if you don't support and overextend.

Didn´t safe the replay. I tried using the Panther at max range though and moved it backwards. Thus it missed 2 shots. Also two generalist tanks shouldn´t really beat a specialist anti tank vehicle from the front - at least not at that cost for the Panther.

Exactly what happens to me..kiting is very difficult with its shitty accuracy and speed of allied tanks.I can do it in maybe a few lucky occasions..never ever consistently.Its DPS and dmg is poor..175 fuel unit and 490 mp.Compare with at-34/85 at 360 mp and 130 fuel with same HP and far better AI...don't know how this works as balance.Range is meaningless..they should just give it same range as other medium tanks as its just an excuse to keep this unit utterly overpriced.


Only thing it has going for it is with good micro and some luck u might be able to flee alive from a battle with its speed,something tiger can't do.With ISU meta at an end..there is no need for it as a flanker either.1 AT gun and its flank is imperilled.Engine dmg..goodbye.

They keep saying wow armor 290..but its effect is not really visible ingame...very few times i see shots bouncing off panther.Tiger on the other hand reliably bounces shots..much better health and survivability and shreds infantry..has good DPS.Calling the panther a dedicated tank hunter is ridiculous joke.I tried for quite a long time in various ways to somehow make this unit work..but 3 out of 4 times it makes me fail..i lose the game and wonder why i was stupid and didn't get the tiger instead.Eventually the frustration gets to u and well u got to accept a unit is finished and dump it.

IMO Panther AI is fine when you give it the top MG and use micro to make sure its hull MG is also facing toward infantry.

The issue is its accuracy on the move, HP and DPS/Rate of Fire.

If a Panther misses 2 or more shots, and/or fails to bounce 2+ it will lose vs almost any other medium tank in the game, bar maybe a t34/76 or Kv8.

I'd like to see either a small decrease to fuel cost or give it a HP/Rate of fire buff and maybe improve its accuracy on the move.

People say Jacksons are bad, Jacksons can two shot a Tiger I in front armour to almost half HP. I'd love to see a Panther do that to an IS2 or ISU.

Thx to skirts and HEAT rounds the p4's will kill any other tank in the game combine this with the p4's ausf J AI capability its the best all round medium tank in the game.

I'd argue that, the Panzer IV Ausf. J might have some neat abilities, but they're also very expensive. I'd argue the best generalist tank is easily the T-34/85. Compared to the Panzer IV it has better AI, better AT, more Armour, more Health, and all this for a measly +20 manpower and +5 fuel, or +50 manpower and +15 fuel if using Advanced Warfare.

10203901295th time: OKW is designed entirely around that resource penalty and has the appropriate strengths to offset it.

Funny you want to do away with those strengths too, huh? I see you all over the Walking Stuka and Obersoldaten OP threads

So 2 P4s shouldn't beat SU-85 upfront as well?
After all its two generalist tanks vs specialist anti tank vehicle from the front.

Don't you see how silly your statement is?

34/85s got as much hp and dps as panther, difference is with penetration, armor and range. If you put two of them, you get enough firepower to bring down a panther and you should as its much more fuel and menpower then panther costs. Panther have pretty much the same effective HP as 2 34/85s, but two 34/85s have twice the DPS.

Numbers are fine, don't overextend it and don't let it go without AT support unless you're flanking something, but 34/85s doesn't require flank. And last but not least, there is this little thing called mark target that will usually be used, so you're being put up against a much greater resources and a pair of strong units, don't expect that to end up well for you if you don't support and overextend.

I knew this guy was coming again... only for you I added the part " at least for the cost of a Panther". The Ostheer Panther is way harder to get and doesn´t exactly fulfill the same role. The SU-85 is a mobile AT-gun. And if kept out of range it will defeat two mediums unless in a vacuum. Also for cost you should have two SU-85s for two Panzer IVs in an equal game. The Panther has less range and can barely make any use of the 50 range it has as it doesn´t spot for itself. The SU-85 is way more cost effective than the Panther and can deal way better with armor.

What do you mean by "Panther AI?" All unit pathing in this game is sort of ass, if that's what we're talking about.

He means Anti Infantry.

He basically wants best AT tank to fight with infantry as well or just make it slightly weaker non doctrinal tiger.

Ah thanks, yes I think the panther would be more valuable if it could actually fight infantry like a sort of buffed panzer.

He means Anti Infantry.

He basically wants best AT tank to fight with infantry as well or just make it slightly weaker non doctrinal tiger.

Actually the Jackson stole the title of best AT tank. 60 range, 240 damage per shot. Trades off armour and some penetration (although it needs more anyway). Much cheaper though, and can repair virtually anywhere, anytime.

We need the old panther back with adjusted veterancy and nerfed blitz.

Actually the Jackson stole the title of best AT tank. 60 range, 240 damage per shot. Trades off armour and some penetration (although it needs more anyway). Much cheaper though, and can repair virtually anywhere, anytime.

I'd argue that given the thing is made of paper(it had 108mm of frontal armor, for comparison, Tiger had 120mm and P4 had 88mm) as well as the lack of effective means for USF to damage engines reliably(RAT nades can miss, no mines outside of M20) or even other armor to screen/spot for it effectively.

While Jackson is effective, I'd much rather use panther for its survivability(which is greatly underestimated in this thread, given tank smoke and return of warp engines).

Panther isn't underestimated at all,it is exactly as it is being depicted toothless 'tank hunter',due to 1)Insane price.
2)Shit accuracy
3)Shit damage.

It can't 'hunt' tanks because it doesn't do enough dmg to enemy tanks in short time for its LOL price.With its reload 160 dmg doesn't cut it..penetrating means nothing if ur DPS remains useless.Because apart from is-2 that penetration value is laregly useless on allied tanks.

They should nerf panther penetration and range..these 2 are just excuses to keep this unit overpriced..they barely add any utility to the vehicle..and finally bring its price on line with other mediums at around 155 odd.

Once its range is same as other allied mediums and penetration is lowered ,sov fanboys like katitof will have no excuse left to say 'its fine for its price'.None of these 2 changes will actually weaken the pantehr in its current state by much..but it will get rid of these superficial 'strengths'-stats on paper that are merely excuses and nothing more.

Except that won't happen and you're going full retard knee jerk here.

And lets hypothetically assume something like this would happen.

It would still be better then KV-1 therefore would cost more then 150fu at least.